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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Hardware
Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P
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Blackfish


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 129
Location: Nakhon Pathom, Thailand

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 03:50    Post_subject:  Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P
Sub_title: Save Battery: Run Puppy Hard Drive Free!
 

DELL Latitude D531. Started running Puppy 5.7.1 on it about three weeks ago.

Old habits die hard...

I got to thinking yesterday, every time I sit down to work on the computer, I boot up in the usual manner. I push the power button, power kicks in, hard drive kicks up and starts spinning... What for? I don't know...

This morning, powered down machine, unplugged everything, flipped it over, removed hard drive. Flipped machine back over, plugged in Puppy USB stick, pressed power button, booted up, went to work in silence, less heat, less friction--and puppy works just the same. The only moving parts left are the CD unit and the processor fan. Battery lasts much, much longer, too.

Not sure why they even make hard drives anymore. For what? Why don't they just build and run everything from memory?
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ardvark


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1162
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2014, 03:56    Post_subject: Re: Who Needs Hardware? :-P
Sub_title: Save Battery: Run Puppy Hard Drive Free!
 

Blackfish wrote:
Not sure why they even make hard drives anymore. For what? Why don't they just build and run everything from memory?


Hi...

For myself personally, I prefer having the storage capabilities a hard drive offers. I don't wish to run everything in or from memory. Wink

Regards...

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NickAu


Joined: 30 Dec 2013
Posts: 186
Location: Far North Coast NSW ɹǝpunuʍop

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2014, 06:02    Post_subject:  

Quote:
The only moving parts left are the CD unit and the processor fan. Battery lasts much, much longer, too.


I Know what you mean.

Quote:
I prefer having the storage capabilities a hard drive offers


32 gig SD card instead of HDD.
A 128 gig Sd Card Costs about 60 bucks.SSD Is about the same. I think we will soon start seeing 1tb SdCards And SSD's at good prices. good bye spinning hard drive,
I have not figured out how to make this pc boot from SD Card if I ever do good bye USB stick I would never be able to fill a 128 gig card.

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Precise Puppy 5.7.1 Retro Fatty Edition. Hp Compaq 2510p 2x Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Cpu U7700@ 1.33 ghz,2 gig ram Booting from 8 gig micro USB + 32 gig SD card instead of HDD
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 15:02    Post_subject:  

I know what you mean. My laptop right now is using a CFcard to IDE adapter with a 32GB CF card. So I have a SSD so to speak. LOL

Using a SD card is doable as well and I've done it using a usb card reader. You can just imagine how many times we've replaced our cell phone because of a new contract and every phone they give comes with at least 2GB of mini sd card. So I use them to try a different OS and others for storage.
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 882
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 15:08    Post_subject:  

I run my laptops without batteries when on mains power, reduces temps quite a lot

will be trying out and old IBM t21 with a compact flash instead of a hdd as a poor man's ssd just for fun

Smile
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2515
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 16:07    Post_subject:  

ally wrote:
I run my laptops without batteries when on mains power, reduces temps quite a lot

will be trying out and old IBM t21 with a compact flash instead of a hdd as a poor man's ssd just for fun

Smile


Discharge to 40% and store in cool place.. let come to room temps to charge. ok to use cold most of mine are in double ziplock sandwitch bags in back of frig. will last long time.
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Marv


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 391
Location: SW Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 16:56    Post_subject:  

jp734 wrote:
I know what you mean. My laptop right now is using a CFcard to IDE adapter with a 32GB CF card. So I have a SSD so to speak. LOL

Using a SD card is doable as well and I've done it using a usb card reader. You can just imagine how many times we've replaced our cell phone because of a new contract and every phone they give comes with at least 2GB of mini sd card. So I use them to try a different OS and others for storage.


All of my laptops are either pata to cf card adapter, sata to cf card adapter or SDD. SDDs are Intel X25-M mostly and the CF cards I favor are the Transcend industrials. Relatively inexpensive and totally totally reliable in this service. Hard disks are relegated to external usb enclosures and used for archiving. System has been in place since roughly pup 4.12 when pupmode 13 got ironed out and I'm never going back. For years at work, tending a largish stable of computers with continuously dying rotating parts my holy grail was NO moving parts. Puppy linux realised that grail Very Happy

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Pups currently in kennel Very Happy X-slacko 2.3n, Lxpup-Tahr, and not to forget trusty Carolina/Carolite (now with 3.14.20 kernel). All lean and steady pups.
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Blackfish


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 129
Location: Nakhon Pathom, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 20:42    Post_subject: Storage
Sub_title: I just store everything on the USB stick.
 

I bought a few little 4 gig USB sticks and set them all up with Puppy. I boot from the USB stick, run Puppy from it, and store all my files on it. When one gets full, or close enough to it, I just start with another one. Then I date and store the full sticks in my file cabinet with the rest of my files.

I could use bigger sticks than 4 gig for storage, but running the risk of losing or breaking a stick only means more loss if something like that occurs. I like breaking it up into smaller bites. Safer that way.
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puppy_apprentice


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 06:05    Post_subject:  

I'm curently using Slacko on USB Stick (frugal install, my machine don't have option to boot from USB even via ZIP option so i have to always use CD to start Puppy) with my old PC because HD is full of Bad Sectors. But i want to buy an adapter SD-ATA and use SD cards like hard disks. Does anybody have any experience with those adapters?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9001

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 09:12    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I'm curently using Slacko on USB Stick (frugal install, my machine don't have option to boot from USB even via ZIP option so i have to always use CD to start Puppy) with my old PC because HD is full of Bad Sectors. But i want to buy an adapter SD-ATA and use SD cards like hard disks. Does anybody have any experience with those adapters?

I used a CF card like this for a while.
If all loads to ram then once running its fine. Any system still fully or partially running from the flash will tend to have lagginess when starting apps for example. Windows suffered the most in this respect.
With yer standard SD or CF flash there is a lack of cache memory which yer hard drive has so thats bottle neck A and and B writing speeds are often a lot slower ...specs dont always portray reality and device quality is a biggie.


General reply....
Why hard drive...convenience, fast boot, mid term storage, piles of on tap software. I had to get a replacement 160GB recently but those SSD looked sooo tempting. Market wise the tradidtional hardrives are becomeing mainly 500GB + devices and the smaller ones are getting scarce except for laptops.

Lifespan..I got nearly 9 years of daily use from a maxtor 80GB...not bad...hope the SSD are as good and yes no moving parts/fragmentation is a big plus point. Beware apparently sandisk have gone for slower tech on their cheaper devices but still give the faster specs for them....

No bias here..have run without HDD in the past and as a stop gap... used multisession CD and flash stick on usb 1.1!...i normally float fully in ram with linux which i think the system SHOULD be separated from yer storage...it makes sense for various reasons. hell i even ran XP from an SD card in a slot on a netbook for a while even though it had its own drive....being able to turn off those teeny HDD in battery equipment is a big bonus.... yer average movie will fit in ram for example for a one off viewing Smile

mike
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3398
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 09:14    Post_subject:  

Correct me if I am wrong. But isn't there an alternative to removing the hard drive in using power management to specify how long the hard drive stays active before spinning down and conserving power?
I cannot remember if it is a BIOS setting though.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9001

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 09:17    Post_subject:  

hdparm -S 12 /dev/sda will spin down a drive after a minute of non use even if mounted...I use it and have it in rc.local. Mskes it quiet and save a bit of juice. Note if you have swap in use that will spin it up again.

mike
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3398
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 09:32    Post_subject:  

Thank you mikeb,

I added that to my rc.local file and then added another line for my second hard drive edited to specify it of course.
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puppy_apprentice


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 10:16    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
I used a CF card like this for a while.
If all loads to ram then once running its fine. Any system still fully or partially running from the flash will tend to have lagginess when starting apps for example. Windows suffered the most in this respect.
With yer standard SD or CF flash there is a lack of cache memory which yer hard drive has so thats bottle neck A and and B writing speeds are often a lot slower ...specs dont always portray reality and device quality is a biggie.


Yep i will not have the speed of my Barracuda. But i want only to boot Puppy (or other Linux) without CD on this old machine. I will use still frugal mode on SD/CF cards. Those adapters cost max. $15. I've tried to find second-hand hd (ATA-66/100/133) but without success. Family and friends have only disk with SATA interface.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9001

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr 2014, 11:59    Post_subject:  

Hmm not sure where you are but there are piles of refurbished pata drives around on ebay and amazon...I did actually find a new sealed PATA 160GB from amazon....but the refurbs go cheap and have some form of warrenty.

You can find SATA to IDE adapters at a similar price to a SD to IDE ... they are like $1-4 if you have no predujices against buying from say hong kong. After all if you buy locally you are getting EXACTYLY the same board but with a middlemans cut.

mike
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