Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P

What works, and doesn't, for you. Be specific, and please include Puppy version.
Message
Author
User avatar
Blackfish
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 15:36
Location: Brookings, SD

Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P

#1 Post by Blackfish »

DELL Latitude D531. Started running Puppy 5.7.1 on it about three weeks ago.

Old habits die hard...

I got to thinking yesterday, every time I sit down to work on the computer, I boot up in the usual manner. I push the power button, power kicks in, hard drive kicks up and starts spinning... What for? I don't know...

This morning, powered down machine, unplugged everything, flipped it over, removed hard drive. Flipped machine back over, plugged in Puppy USB stick, pressed power button, booted up, went to work in silence, less heat, less friction--and puppy works just the same. The only moving parts left are the CD unit and the processor fan. Battery lasts much, much longer, too.

Not sure why they even make hard drives anymore. For what? Why don't they just build and run everything from memory?

User avatar
ardvark
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue 02 Jul 2013, 03:43
Location: USA

Re: Who Needs Hardware? :-P

#2 Post by ardvark »

Blackfish wrote:Not sure why they even make hard drives anymore. For what? Why don't they just build and run everything from memory?
Hi...

For myself personally, I prefer having the storage capabilities a hard drive offers. I don't wish to run everything in or from memory. :wink:

Regards...
Our Lord and Savior [url=http://peacewithgod.jesus.net/]Jesus Christ[/url] loves and cares about you most of all!

PLEASE READ! You don't have to end up [url=http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/BillWiese_23MinutesInHell_Text.htm]here![/url]

User avatar
NickAu
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon 30 Dec 2013, 04:32
Location: Far North Coast NSW ɹÇ￾punuÊ￾op

#3 Post by NickAu »

The only moving parts left are the CD unit and the processor fan. Battery lasts much, much longer, too.
I Know what you mean.
I prefer having the storage capabilities a hard drive offers
32 gig SD card instead of HDD.
A 128 gig Sd Card Costs about 60 bucks.SSD Is about the same. I think we will soon start seeing 1tb SdCards And SSD's at good prices. good bye spinning hard drive,
I have not figured out how to make this pc boot from SD Card if I ever do good bye USB stick I would never be able to fill a 128 gig card.
[b]Precise Puppy 5.7.1 Retro Fatty Edition. Hp Compaq 2510p 2x Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Cpu U7700@ 1.33 ghz,2 gig ram Booting from 8 gig micro USB + 32 gig SD card instead of HDD[/b]

jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#4 Post by jp734 »

I know what you mean. My laptop right now is using a CFcard to IDE adapter with a 32GB CF card. So I have a SSD so to speak. LOL

Using a SD card is doable as well and I've done it using a usb card reader. You can just imagine how many times we've replaced our cell phone because of a new contract and every phone they give comes with at least 2GB of mini sd card. So I use them to try a different OS and others for storage.

User avatar
ally
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat 19 May 2012, 19:29
Location: lincoln, uk
Contact:

#5 Post by ally »

I run my laptops without batteries when on mains power, reduces temps quite a lot

will be trying out and old IBM t21 with a compact flash instead of a hdd as a poor man's ssd just for fun

:)

User avatar
Ted Dog
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed 14 Sep 2005, 02:35
Location: Heart of Texas

#6 Post by Ted Dog »

ally wrote:I run my laptops without batteries when on mains power, reduces temps quite a lot

will be trying out and old IBM t21 with a compact flash instead of a hdd as a poor man's ssd just for fun

:)
Discharge to 40% and store in cool place.. let come to room temps to charge. ok to use cold most of mine are in double ziplock sandwitch bags in back of frig. will last long time.

User avatar
Marv
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 13:47
Location: SW Wisconsin

#7 Post by Marv »

jp734 wrote:I know what you mean. My laptop right now is using a CFcard to IDE adapter with a 32GB CF card. So I have a SSD so to speak. LOL

Using a SD card is doable as well and I've done it using a usb card reader. You can just imagine how many times we've replaced our cell phone because of a new contract and every phone they give comes with at least 2GB of mini sd card. So I use them to try a different OS and others for storage.
All of my laptops are either pata to cf card adapter, sata to cf card adapter or SDD. SDDs are Intel X25-M mostly and the CF cards I favor are the Transcend industrials. Relatively inexpensive and totally totally reliable in this service. Hard disks are relegated to external usb enclosures and used for archiving. System has been in place since roughly pup 4.12 when pupmode 13 got ironed out and I'm never going back. For years at work, tending a largish stable of computers with continuously dying rotating parts my holy grail was NO moving parts. Puppy linux realised that grail :D
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

User avatar
Blackfish
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 15:36
Location: Brookings, SD

Storage

#8 Post by Blackfish »

I bought a few little 4 gig USB sticks and set them all up with Puppy. I boot from the USB stick, run Puppy from it, and store all my files on it. When one gets full, or close enough to it, I just start with another one. Then I date and store the full sticks in my file cabinet with the rest of my files.

I could use bigger sticks than 4 gig for storage, but running the risk of losing or breaking a stick only means more loss if something like that occurs. I like breaking it up into smaller bites. Safer that way.

User avatar
puppy_apprentice
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue 07 Feb 2012, 20:32

#9 Post by puppy_apprentice »

I'm curently using Slacko on USB Stick (frugal install, my machine don't have option to boot from USB even via ZIP option so i have to always use CD to start Puppy) with my old PC because HD is full of Bad Sectors. But i want to buy an adapter SD-ATA and use SD cards like hard disks. Does anybody have any experience with those adapters?

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#10 Post by mikeb »

I'm curently using Slacko on USB Stick (frugal install, my machine don't have option to boot from USB even via ZIP option so i have to always use CD to start Puppy) with my old PC because HD is full of Bad Sectors. But i want to buy an adapter SD-ATA and use SD cards like hard disks. Does anybody have any experience with those adapters?
I used a CF card like this for a while.
If all loads to ram then once running its fine. Any system still fully or partially running from the flash will tend to have lagginess when starting apps for example. Windows suffered the most in this respect.
With yer standard SD or CF flash there is a lack of cache memory which yer hard drive has so thats bottle neck A and and B writing speeds are often a lot slower ...specs dont always portray reality and device quality is a biggie.


General reply....
Why hard drive...convenience, fast boot, mid term storage, piles of on tap software. I had to get a replacement 160GB recently but those SSD looked sooo tempting. Market wise the tradidtional hardrives are becomeing mainly 500GB + devices and the smaller ones are getting scarce except for laptops.

Lifespan..I got nearly 9 years of daily use from a maxtor 80GB...not bad...hope the SSD are as good and yes no moving parts/fragmentation is a big plus point. Beware apparently sandisk have gone for slower tech on their cheaper devices but still give the faster specs for them....

No bias here..have run without HDD in the past and as a stop gap... used multisession CD and flash stick on usb 1.1!...i normally float fully in ram with linux which i think the system SHOULD be separated from yer storage...it makes sense for various reasons. hell i even ran XP from an SD card in a slot on a netbook for a while even though it had its own drive....being able to turn off those teeny HDD in battery equipment is a big bonus.... yer average movie will fit in ram for example for a one off viewing :)

mike

User avatar
8-bit
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 03:37
Location: Oregon

#11 Post by 8-bit »

Correct me if I am wrong. But isn't there an alternative to removing the hard drive in using power management to specify how long the hard drive stays active before spinning down and conserving power?
I cannot remember if it is a BIOS setting though.

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#12 Post by mikeb »

hdparm -S 12 /dev/sda will spin down a drive after a minute of non use even if mounted...I use it and have it in rc.local. Mskes it quiet and save a bit of juice. Note if you have swap in use that will spin it up again.

mike

User avatar
8-bit
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 03:37
Location: Oregon

#13 Post by 8-bit »

Thank you mikeb,

I added that to my rc.local file and then added another line for my second hard drive edited to specify it of course.

User avatar
puppy_apprentice
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue 07 Feb 2012, 20:32

#14 Post by puppy_apprentice »

mikeb wrote:I used a CF card like this for a while.
If all loads to ram then once running its fine. Any system still fully or partially running from the flash will tend to have lagginess when starting apps for example. Windows suffered the most in this respect.
With yer standard SD or CF flash there is a lack of cache memory which yer hard drive has so thats bottle neck A and and B writing speeds are often a lot slower ...specs dont always portray reality and device quality is a biggie.
Yep i will not have the speed of my Barracuda. But i want only to boot Puppy (or other Linux) without CD on this old machine. I will use still frugal mode on SD/CF cards. Those adapters cost max. $15. I've tried to find second-hand hd (ATA-66/100/133) but without success. Family and friends have only disk with SATA interface.

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#15 Post by mikeb »

Hmm not sure where you are but there are piles of refurbished pata drives around on ebay and amazon...I did actually find a new sealed PATA 160GB from amazon....but the refurbs go cheap and have some form of warrenty.

You can find SATA to IDE adapters at a similar price to a SD to IDE ... they are like $1-4 if you have no predujices against buying from say hong kong. After all if you buy locally you are getting EXACTYLY the same board but with a middlemans cut.

mike

bill
Posts: 490
Joined: Wed 28 May 2008, 15:32

Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P

#16 Post by bill »

Well I suppose I am a user who takes no concern about what others use,either OS or HD or memory stick.I have been using memory stick for over two years without any failures.This is the beauty of Puppy Linux so if it feels good,have fun.cheers

User avatar
puppy_apprentice
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue 07 Feb 2012, 20:32

#17 Post by puppy_apprentice »

mikeb wrote:Hmm not sure where you are but there are piles of refurbished pata drives around on ebay and amazon...I did actually find a new sealed PATA 160GB from amazon....but the refurbs go cheap and have some form of warrenty.

You can find SATA to IDE adapters at a similar price to a SD to IDE ... they are like $1-4 if you have no predujices against buying from say hong kong. After all if you buy locally you are getting EXACTYLY the same board but with a middlemans cut.

mike
Yes i can buy disk via internet. But for this old machine it is not so important to search one on internet. It is computer from 2000. If i remember well it had problems with hard disks bigger than 32 mb (besides i have plenty SD/CF cards in my drawer). Maybe Linux will see whole space, but i have two laptops with Core2Duo so this machine is for testing some stuff (eg. SD2ATA adapters, i found one for $2.5).
Attachments
adapter-compact-flash-id_1106.jpg
Another one with master/slave switches
(127.43 KiB) Downloaded 573 times
377.png
Adapter
(88.42 KiB) Downloaded 608 times

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#18 Post by mikeb »

Yes had one of those.
It will work...you may find it a bit laggy but that is really down to how much you spend on a card plus there is always the lack of cache.

Linux will see larger disks.... its older windows without LBA aware driver thats the problem. This machine is year 2000 and now has a 160GB hard drive.

Mike

User avatar
sketchman
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu 01 Jun 2006, 17:20
Location: West Virginia, USA

#19 Post by sketchman »

Both my crypto miner and my HTPC in the living room are completely diskless, and they run their OSs from a thumb drive. I still use disks for storage. My NAS is an eSATA RAID box with 2 2tb HDDs. Can't beat HDDs for volume/price/performance balance. So they still have their place.

As long as your BIOS can boot from USB, I wouldn't bother with the adapters and CF cards. USB is much simpler and you can get thumb drives that fit nearly flush with the USB port so it's fine to leave in.
"In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"

User avatar
rufwoof
Posts: 3690
Joined: Mon 24 Feb 2014, 17:47

Re: Who Needs a Hard Disk? :-P

#20 Post by rufwoof »

Blackfish wrote:This morning, powered down machine, unplugged everything, flipped it over, removed hard drive. Flipped machine back over, plugged in Puppy USB stick, pressed power button, booted up, went to work in silence, less heat, less friction--and puppy works just the same. The only moving parts left are the CD unit and the processor fan.
I liveCD boot puppy - 80MB thinned down Slacko version. Boots totally to RAM.

In addition to that I have a EXTRAS folder with a range of SFS's for Office (Libre), Java, Flash, OpenShot, Inkscape, Audacity, XvidCap etc. (multimedia). Which lifts the ISO up to around 520MB.

Boot, enter locale, click connect, click script to load all of the above (also into ram (no HDD's mounted and you can even eject the CD afterwards)).

What's interesting is that it takes around 1 min 30 sec to copy that EXTRAS set from CD to / (memory), however I can download the whole ISO image (80MB Puppy plus EXTRAS) from googledrive in around 1 min 45 seconds (which is downloading around 80MB more).

Conceptually it could all be solid state. A small command line type boot program that connects the internet and enables wget. Download 80MB or so Linux and boot that to provide a desktop/gui, download EXTRAS to activate word processing, audio/video editing, spreadsheets etc.

The current problem however is that whilst I have a reasonably fast internet connection (50Mb - 75Mb), that's asymmetric and uploading is much slower by comparison.
Attachments
what-no-discs.jpg
(20 KiB) Downloaded 537 times

Post Reply