new Ubuntu LTS is coming!

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oui

new Ubuntu LTS is coming!

#1 Post by oui »

for those experimenting with ubuntu, last time to install a valide daily build version (where you usually are free to try more experiments as in the stable one, where self settings are more difficult to avoid!)...

in a few days, you will probably MUST install the frozzen stable one!

have you tips how to install with Puppy easily on big USB sticks / cards AND USE THE REST CAPACITY ( here are instructions to install ubuntu on a stick out an ubuntu live stick!)
Last edited by oui on Mon 13 Apr 2020, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.

oui

#2 Post by oui »

I hoppe we will get again one such wonderful Puppy build for 64 bit (32 is not offered any more by Ubuntu) from josejp6464 like for Buster :idea: .

But I would myself prefere no browser build in or only a very small one like links2 (to search and download more easily without to have to use wget) as well as only the small leafpad, as today since mounth the staff developping nano bring new release after new release and will probably soon offer a main version 5.0! It would perhaps be an interessting other way to edit in Linux as nano is a small CLI and graphic mode application with great possibility for those beginning without graphic mode her jobs!

Links2 works great with didiwiki! Didiwiki makes out Links2 (and other browser without "composer" integrated solutions for editing text with as well as without smart text ability, list with columns and pictures (see function HELP integrated in didiwiki!)...

(didiwiki was missed in Buster allthough it is present in the depository).

oui

#3 Post by oui »

probably that a lot of Puppy lovers interessting to learn EASILY with a step by step report how to build themselves such a Puppy from this / each one new LTS or not from Ubuntu or Debian as divers great Puppy forum users and Puppy or Quirky lovers did report in the last years great difficulties to work with the new woof versions :roll: .

this hability would in my opinion promute PUPPY to an other level (especially in the context that one of our main developpers did announce a recent surcharge supposed yet actual in his activities reaching as far as puppy main page at http://puppylinux.com (where the wonderfull Buster versions are not yet taken under consideration :oops: ) and puppy wiki at http://wikka.puppylinux.com :wink: )...

the precedent wikka site would be best place for it :roll: because it invitates to translate in other tongues as well as to maintain in the future that knowledge in each step!

probably would a comparing between do that in Debian and in Ubuntu be also useful as Ubuntu did discontinue to publish new versions in 32 bits!

If we wish to continue to have actual new versions for the millions of old PC being always accessible for children and poor people or children from poor people in the world, we MUST consider seriously develop very intensive on Debian more than Ubuntu :wink: . This new Buster new version are a great acquisition for Puppy in this context and probably it will be interesting to continue to work a lot of time on new mixtures of the both 32 bit versions as the Puppy-Buster depository is not so rich for then and as the problem of RAM memory can be more important in the context of use at school etc.

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#4 Post by enrique »

Ubuntu future has been know for some time, and a few post has show here in the forum. Yeap! 64bit only.

In my view another thing to consider will be all the disastrous decision been made to the kernel. And the future of UEFI, I wonder too, what will future bring to Puppy old PC support?

In general very old PC will always have Old Puppy Classics.

I am already on the search for a more static kernel. Puppy is a live study on the issue. Many users here survive only using very old kernels and on very old Puppys. And they seem happy with it. There are interesting projects on reviving old Puppies. And I like the recent fairly good news on Cromebooks. The amount of them in the market at low cost of around $85 USD delivered makes them a good potential market for Puppy to move. I guess will survive a few more virus pandemia.

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#5 Post by peebee »

oui wrote:(32 is not offered any more by Ubuntu)
Not quite correct... 20.04 Focal Fossa does provide some updated 32-bit packages - but a reduced number compared to Eoan Ermine - what is not offered anymore is a 32-bit iso.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 68#1053968
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

oui

#6 Post by oui »

enrique wrote:I am already on the search for a more static kernel. Puppy is a live study on the issue. Many users here survive only using very old kernels and on very old Puppys. And they seem happy with it. There are interesting projects on reviving old Puppies. And I like the recent fairly good news on Cromebooks. The amount of them in the market at low cost of around $85 USD delivered makes them a good potential market for Puppy to move. I guess will survive a few more virus pandemia.
yes,

I have an "mixed" opinion on this situation:

a/ a lot of Puppy users have a (stupid) obstination to continue to use "her" old PC. They don't understand, that the market offers for nothing most better other old PCs and that it would be a preferable use of her energy to interchange both as to continue with that what they actually have

(I did buy trying to install Win95 again but on a Laptop 3 old laptop's last and this year: 18 Euro + 7 Euro shipping within Germany, 37 Euro incl. shipping and 94 Euro incl. (this was not because Win95 but because it can be used with a prepaid SIM card! It is a i7 4 GB 320 GB and so I use internet outside for 1 Euro / day flat. See at http://ebay.de or http://ebay.co.uk !).

b/ poor people have today exactly the same needs as rich people if they MUST use the PC for tele school (children, young people completing her formation) or, more important, can become some tele working if they have PC and internet)

each from us know that it is not possible to use with success each old Puppy with skype, flashplugin etc.

we have to be cautious if we recommand in a M$-Windows world to use our old Puppy's! It can be very wrong for a lot of users depending which minimal requirement the partners (school, employer or customer) consider to be needing for the job...

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#7 Post by darry19662018 »

Well as one of the obstinate people I use old computers from refuse with modern Puppies and Dogs on them.

We are still being catered with distros like this latest quirky by JRB. But hey I'll continue being obstinate - oh well.
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oui

#8 Post by oui »

darry19662018 wrote:Well as one of the obstinate people I use old computers from refuse with modern Puppies and Dogs on them.

We are still being catered with distros like this latest quirky by JRB. But hey I'll continue being obstinate - oh well.
yes, but you change the goal and definition of Puppy

real puppy's offer not an unlimited but a complete personal service with complete set of adequate applications and not only an operating system like IBM-Dos or M$-Windows did do. and the performance was all the time to success to do that in a world where technology continues to evolute. It is not possible to change the among of adequate applications excepted in case of technological progress covered by th new edition without missing function(s),

as both French and German man, I know that old Puppy's were adequate to be really professionally be use in legal public schools (projects ASRI and versions of Puppy made by RSH adapted to the high performance required in one German public high school

the public school can't stop to be performant :roll:

idem for Puppy :idea:

and probably same performance need if some one need to really work with an old computer.

the minimal need is for ex. Skype. which solution have you for Skype? Renouncement? :oops:

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#9 Post by enrique »

oui has its followers, I seen a few post here where users postulate same points, in general they ask us to stop using 32Bit and move to the future of 64Bit.

I am a false obstinate, my main Puppy is BusterDog64. Even when I do use a lot peebee's LXDE Bionic. So I am happy to see peebee's optimism.

But never forget: Necessity is the mother of all inventions. I too live on a very low budget. So my old PC, I acquired from my ex productive life, is all what I have. I know and see many post here of people around the world trying to make life with what they get. Last one I remember inukaze a guy from Venezuela trying to resuscitate a "Portátil Magallanes Canaima 1". Broken HDD and all he can get was 1 GB Memory sick!! So he ask how Puppy could help a kid survive with such low storage limitation.

Regards Skype, Zoom and even latest Browsers. It is hard to handle Live HD Video on low resources PC. This is not new but Covid19 makes it an issue now. I guess God will provide. Soon some one will realize that low budget people need a low resource dependent app. I guess some tweek will show sooner or latter. In any case many of us may not need it as Internet bandwidth may be even bigger limiting factor to us. Yes, the Rich and the Poor. I am not that poor neither but you get the point.

Going back to Ubuntu. Uhmm! I though a few developers will be force to move soon. peebee show us I was wrong. Interesting

enrique

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#10 Post by darry19662018 »

Well I have an HPdv6000 - which is not new and I have Bionic Dog 32bit set up to communicate with family via zoom and messenger and it does it really well.

So it depends on the machine - not all old machines are the same.
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#11 Post by darry19662018 »

oui wrote:
darry19662018 wrote:Well as one of the obstinate people I use old computers from refuse with modern Puppies and Dogs on them.

We are still being catered with distros like this latest quirky by JRB. But hey I'll continue being obstinate - oh well.
yes, but you change the goal and definition of Puppy

real puppy's offer not an unlimited but a complete personal service with complete set of adequate applications and not only an operating system like IBM-Dos or M$-Windows did do. and the performance was all the time to success to do that in a world where technology continues to evolute. It is not possible to change the among of adequate applications excepted in case of technological progress covered by th new edition without missing function(s),

as both French and German man, I know that old Puppy's were adequate to be really professionally be use in legal public schools (projects ASRI and versions of Puppy made by RSH adapted to the high performance required in one German public high school

the public school can't stop to be performant :roll:

idem for Puppy :idea:

and probably same performance need if some one need to really work with an old computer.

the minimal need is for ex. Skype. which solution have you for Skype? Renouncement? :oops:
There are plenty of alternatives to Skype and I'm just getting on with using what I need to communicate with family thanks to the Dogs.

There are different Puppies both old and new and Dogs to meet one's needs - so I'm just going to get on and do what I need to do.
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#12 Post by rockedge »

what solution for Skype?

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#13 Post by darry19662018 »

rockedge wrote:what solution for Skype?
As I said I use zoom in one of my 32bit dogs. Sometimes I use Facebook Messenger - if you have a look on sites that give alternatives you will find alternatives.
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oui

#14 Post by oui »

darry19662018 wrote:
rockedge wrote:what solution for Skype?
As I said I use zoom in one of my 32bit dogs. Sometimes I use Facebook Messenger - if you have a look on sites that give alternatives you will find alternatives.
In the long first years of Puppy was skype standard in Puppy (and in SliTaz, ISO yet now only 50 MB, Skype download extra...)!

it it easy to asser something :!:

I did use skype at work years along. In some countries skype is the only one standard! You can as amateur use what you want as long you only play with your Puppy or use it only with your grand'ma!

«zoom» is possibly a new coming standard, if the actual lack or publication of thousand of private data don't afraid in the future the customer. It is not the right time to promote this application until we don't know what is the matter with the security!
enrique wrote:oui has its followers, I seen a few post here where users postulate same points, in general they ask us to stop using 32Bit and move to the future of 64Bit.
why?

I also use frequently the BusterPup 32 bit non PAE from josejp2424 (thank you again josejp2424 for all 3 versions), a wonderful Puppy with really active Pulseaudio on my main laptop (see left margin). It is so fast that I would not need some 64 bit version...

...excepted for the applications like skype being now available in 64 bit! It is in the daily praxis the only one valid reason :idea: (if my main purpose is to run the classic app's of Puppy!).

and I am lucky using that 32 bit distribution to help owner of older machines (also my machine is not new, more than 10 y. But it was at it's time a powerful machine. It compiles all the Linux base with X windows in only 10..12 h from the sources of LFS!) to get distros with all actual figures running on those older hardware.

(the only one problem with above 32 bit version, both, with and without PAE kernel is that Puppy destroy the user settings after remaster and the start makes always a stop on my computer before coming in X windows. The 64 bit version doesn't that error and starts really faster for this reason. And time is the only good that really nobody can buy or substitute through an other!)
peebee wrote:
oui wrote:(32 is not offered any more by Ubuntu)
Not quite correct... 20.04 Focal Fossa does provide some updated 32-bit packages - but a reduced number compared to Eoan Ermine - what is not offered anymore is a 32-bit iso.
but concerning ubuntu, the problems are to big now...

it is not enough to get a few number of fresh 32 app's (probably also all available in Debian SID as real *.deb packages...)

what will you do with them?

build that, what Ubuntu fans name "a monster" as you have no actual base any more!

rebuild / maintain / develop some kind of "neo base" for 32 bit ubuntu? nonsens!

and how to do that, with packages from Devuan or with old packages from obsolete versions from Ubuntu?

Ubuntu, Debian etc. did split Linux into old time Linux and a new Linux without compatibility with the old ones!

In Debian actually, you can partially continue to get a coherent 32 bit Linux distribution under using systemd...

Deepin did kill the 32 bit version last year.

Devuan also will kill the 32 bit version. LFS ok, but Puppy Linux developers ar ... news]NuTyx, it is LFS stuff ready to use packaged as binaries

(and self compilable if you prefer to begin at this stage (see above 10..12 hours from organized sources from NuTyx depository for base, kernel and just X). If you really want to do it, ask at the English forum from NuTyx as the fans of that way are not numerous and the depository changes can disturb you heavily from day to day! If T.N. is aware some one works actually with it, he will probably be so friendly to help you and say to you what is now possible as well as how to begin).

Thierry Nuttens produces it since more than 10 y. as about one man show (Pierre supplies y. along only the KDE packages. Now divers other persons supply different other desk systems). As T. N. did produce all this time both 32 and 64 system as he has developed a system for the self compilation of LFS, this is not very difficult for him, he will probably continue so long LFS will produce compatible sources with or without systemd...
oui wrote:have you tips how to install with Puppy easily on big USB sticks / cards AND USE THE REST CAPACITY ( here are instructions to install ubuntu on a stick out an ubuntu live stick!)
a way is, as about all old SliTaz CD can start the newest online version from Slitaz :roll: to enter in the actual SliTaz and install UNetbootin, available as package through the SliTaz Control Panel :idea: and do that with UNetbootin :wink: in this provisory version of SliTaz running in your RAM :!: .

In UNetbootin you can fill up the field with (probably) the name «size of the save capacity to preserve for data transfers from start tot start» (excuse me, I did do that in French). If the size selected by you (for ex. 5 x "9") is to high takes UNetbootin automatic all the rest capacity...

ok, it is not a solution with Puppy but with SliTaz :oops:

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#15 Post by darry19662018 »

oui wrote:
darry19662018 wrote:
rockedge wrote:what solution for Skype?
As I said I use zoom in one of my 32bit dogs. Sometimes I use Facebook Messenger - if you have a look on sites that give alternatives you will find alternatives.
In the long first years of Puppy was skype standard in Puppy (and in SliTaz, ISO yet now only 50 MB, Skype download extra...)!

it it easy to asser something :!:

I did use skype at work years along. In some countries skype is the only one standard! You can as amateur use what you want as long you only play with your Puppy or use it only with your grand'ma!

«zoom» is possibly a new coming standard, if the actual lack or publication of thousand of private data don't afraid in the future the customer. It is not the right time to promote this application until we don't know what is the matter with the security!
enrique wrote:oui has its followers, I seen a few post here where users postulate same points, in general they ask us to stop using 32Bit and move to the future of 64Bit.
why?

I also use frequently the BusterPup 32 bit non PAE from josejp2424 (thank you again josejp2424 for all 3 versions), a wonderful Puppy with really active Pulseaudio on my main laptop (see left margin). It is so fast that I would not need some 64 bit version...

...excepted for the applications like skype being now available in 64 bit! It is in the daily praxis the only one valid reason :idea: (if my main purpose is to run the classic app's of Puppy!).

and I am lucky using that 32 bit distribution to help owner of older machines (also my machine is not new, more than 10 y. But it was at it's time a powerful machine. It compiles all the Linux base with X windows in only 10..12 h from the sources of LFS!) to get distros with all actual figures running on those older hardware.

(the only one problem with above 32 bit version, both, with and without PAE kernel is that Puppy destroy the user settings after remaster and the start makes always a stop on my computer before coming in X windows. The 64 bit version doesn't that error and starts really faster for this reason. And time is the only good that really nobody can buy or substitute through an other!)
peebee wrote:
oui wrote:(32 is not offered any more by Ubuntu)
Not quite correct... 20.04 Focal Fossa does provide some updated 32-bit packages - but a reduced number compared to Eoan Ermine - what is not offered anymore is a 32-bit iso.
but concerning ubuntu, the problems are to big now...

it is not enough to get a few number of fresh 32 app's (probably also all available in Debian SID as real *.deb packages...)

what will you do with them?

build that, what Ubuntu fans name "a monster" as you have no actual base any more!

rebuild / maintain / develop some kind of "neo base" for 32 bit ubuntu? nonsens!

and how to do that, with packages from Devuan or with old packages from obsolete versions from Ubuntu?

Ubuntu, Debian etc. did split Linux into old time Linux and a new Linux without compatibility with the old ones!

In Debian actually, you can partially continue to get a coherent 32 bit Linux distribution under using systemd...

Deepin did kill the 32 bit version last year.

Devuan also will kill the 32 bit version. LFS ok, but Puppy Linux developers ar ... news]NuTyx, it is LFS stuff ready to use packaged as binaries

(and self compilable if you prefer to begin at this stage (see above 10..12 hours from organized sources from NuTyx depository for base, kernel and just X). If you really want to do it, ask at the English forum from NuTyx as the fans of that way are not numerous and the depository changes can disturb you heavily from day to day! If T.N. is aware some one works actually with it, he will probably be so friendly to help you and say to you what is now possible as well as how to begin).

Thierry Nuttens produces it since more than 10 y. as about one man show (Pierre supplies y. along only the KDE packages. Now divers other persons supply different other desk systems). As T. N. did produce all this time both 32 and 64 system as he has developed a system for the self compilation of LFS, this is not very difficult for him, he will probably continue so long LFS will produce compatible sources with or without systemd...
oui wrote:have you tips how to install with Puppy easily on big USB sticks / cards AND USE THE REST CAPACITY ( here are instructions to install ubuntu on a stick out an ubuntu live stick!)
a way is, as about all old SliTaz CD can start the newest online version from Slitaz :roll: to enter in the actual SliTaz and install UNetbootin, available as package through the SliTaz Control Panel :idea: and do that with UNetbootin :wink: in this provisory version of SliTaz running in your RAM :!: .

In UNetbootin you can fill up the field with (probably) the name «size of the save capacity to preserve for data transfers from start tot start» (excuse me, I did do that in French). If the size selected by you (for ex. 5 x "9") is to high takes UNetbootin automatic all the rest capacity...

ok, it is not a solution with Puppy but with SliTaz :oops:
Phew! So in short you are bemoaning the fact that Ubuntu has removed 32bit support and therefore making it imposible to build a Puppy well I tried Peebee's effort and apart from a Package Manager bug - it was an alpha quality release afterall so I'm not too worried. As for Skype well Microsoft aquired and as usual will run it into the ground so we move on.

Anyway there are still other sources of Distro to build from and so I'm just going to get on with what I want to do with my 32bit Puppies which work well and Dogs and if this community stops doing 32bit builds thats up to them it is not going to stop me using my machine I have too much else to worry about - like surviving. By the way you always moan about the size of modern Puppies and wanting something small well have you tried JRB's effort and helped test it seems to be a much more productive way to spend your energy eh! But suspect you've got plenty more venting to do so. By the way I don't feel my continued use of my machine which is 64bit by the way I just prefer running 32bit stuff on it. Anyway enjoy your venting.........................................
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#16 Post by Colonel Panic »

Good thread. I'm not in any hurry to download the forthcoming Ubuntu version even though I've been testing the beta; I couldn't get xfburn to work in it as by the error message's own admission it isn't set up to burn. [In which case, what's the point of it?] Also, it seems that some of the programs I'm used to having, such as conky and portabase, won't be available for it as they are for 16.04 LTS (which still has about a year to run).

I think the 32 bit - 64 bit controversy has been done on here before and I know 32-bit distros are a good choice for people with older computers and less than 4 GB of RAM (which I always had until a year ago), but all I'll say for now is that it's getting harder to find 32-bit distros and software releases now.

Softmaker have just said that they won't be doing a 32-bit version of the next edition of theiir office suite Softmaker Office, which I would imagine means that there won't be a 32-bit version of FreeOffice in future either.
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#17 Post by mistfire »

Before releasing puppy based from new Ubuntu release version. Make sure that pending pull request from woof-ce github has decided if it will merge or not

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#18 Post by peebee »

mistfire wrote:Before releasing puppy based from new Ubuntu release version. Make sure that pending pull request from woof-ce github has decided if it will merge or not
Why? Which pull requests are essential to build a Ubuntu Focal Fossa based pup?

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pulls
network_connect: Increase wait for link detection; replace deprecated cmds
#1804 opened yesterday by rserwin1

xwin: startup improvements
#1802 opened 17 days ago by rizalmart

rc.update: small tweak
#1801 opened 18 days ago by rizalmart

z_update_system_cache.sh: Some improvements
#1800 opened 18 days ago by rizalmart
2

sfs_load: Some improvements
#1799 opened 18 days ago by rizalmart

remasterpup2: Improved remastering
#1798 opened 22 days ago by rizalmart
1

removepreview.sh: Move package files to a folder
#1797 opened 22 days ago by rizalmart

installpkg.sh: Move package files to a folder
#1796 opened 22 days ago by rizalmart
4

petget: Improve package entry
#1795 opened 22 days ago by rizalmart
2

init: add small tweaks
#1792 opened 29 days ago by rizalmart

init: unmount stray tmpfs mountpoints
#1790 opened on 20 Mar by rizalmart

WIP: in ld.so.conf add: include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf
#1785 opened on 12 Mar by s243a
2

allow decimal in package size for ppm (puppy package manager)
#1760 opened on 27 Feb by s243a
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#19 Post by ozsouth »

rerwins' new sns is really worth including (& his new network_connect also). Other than that, need the newer xsaneshell with wireless scanner option.

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#20 Post by peebee »

ozsouth wrote:need the newer xsaneshell with wireless scanner option.
From?

Currently for 32-bit:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... d-i686.pet

64-bit:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... bionic.pet
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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