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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Woof-based Puppy builders wanted
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1788

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 02:48    Post_subject:  Woof-based Puppy builders wanted  

It would appear that after the retirement of Barry Kauler and in spite a community support attempt, "traditional" puppy building have come to a stop.
Playdayz stopped long ago, after the end of puppy 5.2.x Lucid
Pemasu almost disappeared after his first release of a woof-CE based Dpup last December and
01micko is also gone after the release of Slacko 5.7(.0) 2 months ago
stemsee and oldyeller are still building woof-based puppies but they are more interested in building variants of existing ones (precise, wheezy, slacko) rather than new ones.
(sorry if I missed any woof-CE-based puppy builder)
So it would appear that there is a void. Sad

Improvements in woof-CE are still going on but they are not implemented in any puppy.
So if you want the next Ubuntu-, Slackware-, T2- or whatever-based puppy, do not wait for others to build it because they will not. Exclamation
Go ahead and do it yourself.
I'm sure that the community will rally around you as it is really going to be the only new game in town (as in the Lucid era Wink )

Edit: Just to clarify that this is not about remastering older puppies but about building brand-new ones, like an Ubuntu 14.04LTS- or slackware14.1- or a mageia4- based one.

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Rangan Masti

Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 05:15    Post_subject: Puppy builders wanted  

Puppy linux community must continue!!
PUPPY LINUX is great....!!!!!!!
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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 1867
Location: wales

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 05:35    Post_subject:  

hi mavrothal,

a bit of a woof 'how to' would probably help ... for instance how to add trusty repos .... so as to build a new puppy version. Also maybe a 64bit how to

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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 455

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 06:48    Post_subject:  

Well it would be good if everyone got behind one particular distro, more hands make lighter work etc.

Rerwin has done an admirable effort to bring Luci up to date, so that one will last years. Wink

I am currently deconstructing studio 1337 (32 bit), because I can see the amount of care put into it, it is a beauty. I particularly like the way he ripped into that humungous menu and shaved it down to just the essentials, and ice window manager is a revelation.
Plus I shoved it into a couple of old pcs and it was straight up to the desktop unlike some distros.
I managed to get it down to 250mb with a new wine+old mini gimp.

Specifications are important.
For me, just a little (5mb pet) gimp edits all the graphics on a right click.
Viewnoir opens all the graphics on a left click.
Rox thumbnails is permanently on
XMPlay does all the audio and midi. (Had trouble with sound on mplayer, wouldn't always play).
A right click edits audio with wavosaur, because it is fast and accurate, even though audacity is a lovely app.
Mplayer does all the videos.
Trouble is, I bust the cups 143! All the bits are there, but it says not found or something when the firefox cups page comes up.
I reckon puppy 533 versions do seem worth working on, I managed to rip the wizards out as the keyboard, locale, bloody firewall etc are available in the menu anyway.
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neerajkolte


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 342
Location: Pune, India.

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 07:30    Post_subject:  

Quote:
So if you want the next Ubuntu-, Slackware-, T2- or whatever-based puppy, do not wait for others to build it because they will not.
Go ahead and do it yourself.
could anyone provide some links to howtos.
thanks

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1788

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 07:44    Post_subject:  

neerajkolte wrote:
Quote:
So if you want the next Ubuntu-, Slackware-, T2- or whatever-based puppy, do not wait for others to build it because they will not.
Go ahead and do it yourself.
could anyone provide some links to howtos.
thanks


The oldest are playdayz' write ups for Lucid 5.1 and 5.2
Woof itself has pleanty of general info, kernel building info and woof-building info.
The rest is in the scripts themselves as in a typical BK fashion, commenting is abundant.

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koulaxizis


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 428
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 08:01    Post_subject:  

Well, it was almost sure that Puppy's development will slow down or even stop completely after Barry's retirement... Not because he was "the one", but he was able to lead this process, make others to invest time and knowledge, attract interest on Puppy. It's sad though... Puppy is a wonderful distro, it would be really bad if it halt and cease exist without lead developers to support it. Enthusiast users only can't do what it takes for a disto to keep going...
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1788

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 09:18    Post_subject:  

koulaxizis wrote:
Well, it was almost sure that Puppy's development will slow down or even stop completely after Barry's retirement...

Actually this is not true.
Development, keeps going even as we speak.
What is missing is person(s) to take the time to build, tune and support a new puppy.
For Ubuntu Tahr for example there is already enough code from quirky-Tahr to try to build a puppy, but no one invested the time so far...
We just need the next (or previous Very Happy ) Playdayz, Micko, Pemasu etc to step up the plate. Thus this call.
If this never happens then I guess you will be correct.

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oldyeller


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 818
Location: Mishawaka IN

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 10:57    Post_subject:  

I did start on saucy, but only didn't get to the desktop I would go forward with a new build, but right now I am updating my code for my Manna Bible Software and my next release of Manna OS When that is done maybe I will have the time to dig into woof and set one up for the latest ubuntu. I will need help with that since a lot of it will be new to me, so any feed back would be great.

This is something that I have wanted to do for a long time now. So maybe it could happen if people get be hide me or others to achieve this.

Cheers
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2014, 23:39    Post_subject: woof and T2-version 9  

I'm still around Mavrothl, and working through T2 Version 9 to create a Racy Equivalent Base. Something like I built myz with no user apps just utility and system commands with most of puppy's libs. The rest appears in sts's or you can install as pets. It does include a set of pet building apps and a stepped 'walkthrough' file for newbies and oldbies that get tired and need reminding of what comes after.....

The problem is time at present, with external workloads (24hr on-call) taking precedence, and the number of problems being encountered due to the way puppy is set up. Not a BarryK problem, just the way T2 has evolved!

I'm even thinking of starting it all again with the latest woof-ce and the latest stable kernal as mine is now so old.

I'm also thinking of incorperating Aborigonal as the pre-switch start to gain some of the features they have.

And with Toybox now going great, I think it needs to become incorperated as standard. It has a superset of command switches without the need to include the number of full individual commands as we do now.

I really need to go through my woof mailbox!

regards
scsijon

p.s. as an afterthought I wonder if it's worth having a topic containing sets of DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS, DISTRO_PET_REPOS, DISTRO_PKG_SPECS_xxxxxx and DISTRO_SPECS files. These four should be enough to cover what builders have done with a short explanation of what it's "philosophy/reason to exist" is and where they have got to, so the work done has not been lost! It would also allow those that want to improve / add / remove / update / etc to build without starting again. It would also allow those that work with 64bit to take the 32bit versions and build an equivalent.
Hope this all makes sense, i'm going to bed, 23hrs straight at 62years of age is just too long..
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stemsee


Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 489
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu 22 May 2014, 01:44    Post_subject: NewPups
Sub_title: I have tried
 

I have tried building a jessie and also a mageia. I didn't persue it after hitting fundamental flaws in the environment that halted progress. Then I started to familiarize myself more with the inner workings of woof-ce scripts so as to KNOW rather than guess what can be done during he process , to save time, during any part of the preparation and building process. For example one can jump to ./2createpackages if oe has local repositories with relevant packages, and one can also change kernel at the ./3builddistro stage if one wants. One can also unpack packages and place them in Packages-wheezy, for eg, and some packages will appear in the final build without added them in the DiSTRO-PKGS-SPECS-* . I am learning script so I struggle through, learning as and when needed. I am just lucky to have put out two updated builds that work well enough. It is very time consuming and frustrating though. I have also found that some packages have completely wrong pet specs! Although they might have been ones manually downloaded.

So there is progress if not demonstrable at the moment.

Stemsee
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1788

PostPosted: Thu 22 May 2014, 02:14    Post_subject:  

Ii is encouraging that there are people working behind the curtains on puppies but this should not deter others to do the same Wink
I've made a couple of woof runs of my own and I know that is a long and occasionally error prone and frustrating process (thus my comment about the time investment - that I can not afford).
It would be good if problems (and solutions) about woof building are discussed in the
github woof-CE bug tracker
The woof-CE mailing list
The woof-CE forum thread
Or any other new thread in this forum if you believe that exposure to "non-woofing" members will be beneficial for the question at hand.

In all cases, even if the final product is not "perfect", please provide patches of improvements that you may have made in woof, so it can benefit the rest of the "woofers"

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stemsee


Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 489
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu 22 May 2014, 03:23    Post_subject: recruiting talent
Sub_title: recruiting
 

What I am thinking about is a unifying script that works from the parent directory of Woof-ce-master or testing, and builds the kernel and imports it at the last stage (3) into the ongoing preparation, and that also downloads unfound packages in ERROR.txt from a reputable repo; and is able to list all packages in a repo directory and format that into a db file as is used in DISTRO-PKGS-SPECS and then present an additional choosepackages menu for user added apps; and /or allow one to build a puppy from whatever is in that repo dir. and the ability to add big static apps like libbreofice and Ardour3 and Virtualbox and Chrome/earth to /opt in the skeleton with symlinks and menu entries and eradicate multiple python3s etc etc.

Just a thought

Wink
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Thu 22 May 2014, 03:32    Post_subject:  

Just to be clear.. I am not gone.

I have ideas but I severely lack time and that will probably be the case for a couple to several more months.

Just to capture BK's vision of woof..
Quote:
For a long time I have dreamt of a "magical script" that could download packages of some other distro, cut them right down to Puppy-size, then build a Puppy Linux live-CD -- and do all of this totally automatically.

(Ref)

-----------------------------------

While I am scarce I am contactable, though response may not be immediate. Feel free to contact me, especially future distro builders. Smile

Cheers.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1788

PostPosted: Sun 25 May 2014, 05:46    Post_subject:  

01micko wrote:
Just to be clear.. I am not gone.


Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing Shocked
Looks like you scared everyone away Razz Laughing

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