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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Woof-based Puppy builders wanted
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2348
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 03 Jun 2014, 18:32    Post subject: Re: What is Puppy?  

peebee wrote:

[philosophy]What makes Puppy is this forum - and the wealth of software developed and made available by all the contributors to the forum - if a future system does not allow the software on the Puppy forum to be used - pets and sfs's - then to my mind it's no longer Puppy....software does not need to be stored in a single repository to be accessible and useful[/philosophy]

Cheers!
peebee


The above hits the nail on the head in my point of view. Puppy is a playground as much as an everyday used OS.

As for DebianDog... I would hope everything in Puppy world would not end up just being like modified DebianDog systems - DebianDog is just one approach, albeit I think, proving to be one of the good ones (which is why I put effort into that distribution's development).

However, it would be incorrect to suggest that DebianDog is yet just another Debian Live system. It is very much, I feel, a special Debian Live based system which draws on much of what could be called the Puppy philosophy. It belongs on this forum because, aside from the care taken to preserve the correct multiuser operation of its Debian core components, its look and feel, including utilities and small Puppy or Puppy-like apps, is being developed by this forum's members. The major difference, as a playground for Puppy forum members, including those who like to develop new utilities and apps, is that petget (and thus dotpet) is discarded in favour of dpkg (with apt frontend) - (but there are excellent sfs load/unload utilities provided in DebianDog anyway - I often fire up sfs files from Puppy on DebianDog - wine, gimp, inkscape - most all have worked excellently for me). Using a new package manager system takes a bit of getting used to, but it is an easy transition once begun. From the playground point of view, it is a matter of knowing how to package a small utility/app - what to use instead of dir2pet, for example.

Yesterday, I created my second deb package for DebianDog, from one of my puppy apps (pAVrecord) untarred from the dotpet into a directory. To repackage it for DebianDog all I needed was (instead of dir2pet) the DebianDog provided utility make-deb-package, which incidentally was created by a Puppy user and forum member, RSH, for Puppy itself (who incorporated ideas from forum member Semme). And DebianDog developers, in particular Toni and Fred, are likewise providing much information, including small utilities and apps that could usefully be adopted or adapted in whatever Puppy build systems are developed. That collaborative development effort, as peebee alludes, is what this forum, and Puppy itself is all about. That, complex synergy, I say, is what really makes Puppy different from other distributions - it is the forum and the playground of 'Puppy' rather than woof or any other build system to authorize its authenticity.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 05:27    Post subject:  

I agree with William ( mcewanw ).
Further more, what`s the advantage to trying to blend Puppy and Debian?
Puppy`s only advantage is it`s extensive boot media types and methods.
And personally I think a CD-DVD is a terrible boot device ( Flash is growling... Laughing )
HD, USB, and PXE, ( and soon Web boot ) are the only needed boot methods.

Doesn`t it make sense to just take std. Debian and mod it to do what you want?
Some things about std. Debian I don`t like, but it is a standard, Puppy`s an orphan.
Rather than making another mutt, clean-up Debian so it shines.
.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 07:25    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Further more, what`s the advantage to trying to blend Puppy and Debian?
Puppy's versatility and Debian's vast repository.
Quote:
Puppy`s only advantage is it`s extensive boot media types and methods.
A very worthwhile advantage worth keeping, I would say.
Quote:
And personally I think a CD-DVD is a terrible boot device ( Flash is growling... Laughing )
I'd stay out of politics Laughing

Quote:
Doesn`t it make sense to just take std. Debian and mod it to do what you want?
It does. And I think saintless and his team is doing a wonderful job doing that.
Quote:
Rather than making another mutt, clean-up Debian so it shines.
Ahh ... but when that modified Debian wags like a mutt, smells like a mutt, and barks like a mutt, in the end you've gotten yourself a mutt Laughing

It's just two different approaches to the same goal, really; and there is no reason that one excludes another. Isn't puppy about choice? Wink

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battleshooter


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 1110
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 08:14    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
Isn't puppy about choice?


Moat wrote:
Package incompatibility between derivatives... so many derivatives = scattered resources/scattered compatibility.


And isn't that one of Puppy's best features and worst flaw?

I really like Moat's suggestions earlier on in this thread. They make sense, but I'm afraid Lobster may be right in that herding developers is like herding cats.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1782

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 13:45    Post subject:  

After at least 5 major GNU/Linux base distros and few hundreds derivatives of those 5, are we really discussing why have one more or one less?... Confused
Because the next one does one thing better that all the others (I think Shocked Very Happy )

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 13:49    Post subject:  

battleshooter wrote:
I'm afraid Lobster may be right in that herding developers is like herding cats.

battleshooter, you are counted as part of the "developers" group because you build SFS-es Smile (many of which I like and use, thanks!). Now, the real question is not about the cats, its about you - do you want/like to be "herded"? Wink

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 13:52    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Because the next one does one thing better that all the others (I think Shocked Very Happy )
Tell me about it. I was thinking to add Fedora/Mageia support to woof-next. And then I learnt that they use *different, incompatible* versions of RPM Evil or Very Mad May be next time then Shocked
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 14:54    Post subject:  

Yes of course Puppy is all about choice, I just question the advantages of reinventing Debian`s wheel.
The O.S. structure is what`s std. or not, the polished product is only the O.S.`s interface ( services & apps.).
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 453
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 18:29    Post subject:  

I've considered trying to build a puppy and then I noticed that Woof requires 1/2 TB? Is that right? Not sure if I want to go out and buy a new drive for Woof.

One of these days, I'll take a crack at it...

But if you turn off the number lock and your wifi gets disconnected, don't come running to me!
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battleshooter


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 1110
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 20:37    Post subject:  

@jamesbond

I think I'm more of an over enthusiastic end user than a dev. Ultimately I didn't create anything and it's not my code. At best a package manager.

But I did consider being "herded" and all it's implications.

If I really was to follow Moat's suggestions I'd take the best of Carolina, and combine it with Slacko or Precise, one of the mainstreams, And then I'd only compile SFSs for the mainstream puplets.

However, I don't have that skill to transfer, and yet I wouldn't be willing to move from Carolina either. So if was a dev, I'd be one of those stubborn cats that wouldn't move in the right direction.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1782

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 23:34    Post subject:  

slavvo67 wrote:
and then I noticed that Woof requires 1/2 TB? Is that right?

1/2 TB? Shocked
How/where did you noticed?
Usually 10GB is more than enough even to build your kernel

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1782

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul 2014, 00:06    Post subject:  

battleshooter wrote:
if was a dev, I'd be one of those stubborn cats that wouldn't move in the right direction.

All directions are good!
Saluki/Carolina share code with "main stream" puppies (bidirectionally). Someone just needs to do the sharing... Wink

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2469
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul 2014, 00:33    Post subject:  

I do not like cats, yet they always try to warm up to me. How upto date is T2 I tried years back to roll my own pre MacTel mac PowerPC spin but bogged down on Xwindows not finishing.
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul 2014, 02:25    Post subject:  

Hi

Ted Dog wrote:
I do not like cats......

Shocked Shocked

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1511
Location: Malvern, Worcs, UK

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul 2014, 01:57    Post subject: OB Precise 14.07, Woof-CE build  

vicmz has joined the club.....

OB Precise 14.07, Woof-CE build

Great to see another Woof-based Puppy builder......

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