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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Question re: Slacko / WinXP dual install
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rayl

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 33
Location: Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, PA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 13:51    Post subject:  Question re: Slacko / WinXP dual install  

This is a general question about the idea of having both Puppy and WinXP on the same drive.
The PC is a Dell Latitude C600, BIOS ver. A23, Pentium III, 192MB Ram. Samsung HM120JC 120MB hard drive.
The WinXP view of the HD is 120MB.
The BIOS view of the HD is 54,505MB.
The HD currently has a fresh install of WinXP and the WinXP view is:
C: 19.53GB NTFS, 92.25GB Unallocated.
THIS IS THE STARTING POINT.
The goal is to put Slacko Puppy 5.7 full install somewhere in the 92MB unallocated space and allow WinXP to handle the booting of either itself or Puppy.

I read a considerable amount of the forum concerning this issue and I don't think it's addressed very well. For example, none of the remarks I found deal with the issue of beginning with unallocated space for puppy -- they all assume a shrink operation is necessary. There are many other omissions as well.
I have the impression that if one were to boot the live puppy cd and then do an install, the install procedure would not be able to correctly handle the unallocated space -- i.e. it wouldn't ask if the space should be used to create a partition for install.
I'm wondering what the correct procedure is for this scenario?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9017

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 14:10    Post subject:  

The missing link as you say is to tell the user to use gparted to create a partition in the unallocated space...you selecte it and choose 'new'.....
It is usually prudent to create a swap partition too...more than likely for a pentium 3 machine (I have 2)...I have 512mb plus 512mb ram...though 1GB would not hurt if the space is there.

Bios limits should not be a problem as long as the boot loader is in the first partition.
I use grub4dos and its mbr for multiboot but you may prefer the less intrusive grub4dos and edit boot.ini approach...just means 2 boot menus rather than one.

Otherwise once that partition or partitions are created the wizards should handle the rest.... though its common to separately handle the booting side.

And yes a pretty gappy arrangement compared to most other operating systems but thats the nature of the beastie.

mike
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OscarTalks

Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 934
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 14:15    Post subject:  

Hello rayl,

Should be quite straight forward. You can't install into unallocated space though. Boot the Puppy live CD (with no save-file loaded) and use gparted to create a Linux ext3 partition. You will also need to create a swap partition of maybe 1.5 to 2.0 Gigs or so because your RAM is very low. Install Puppy (frugal recommended) into the ext3 partition and then install grub legacy or grub4dos which will boot either Puppy or WinXP (you can make either the default). Must admit I've never tried to do it with anything earlier than a P4 though.

mikeb got in before me but thought I would post anyway.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9356
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 14:16    Post subject: Re: PupWin Install
Subject description: Gen. question re dual install of Slacko 5.7 & Win XP
 

rayl wrote:
192MB Ram

I would stick to the Puppies from the 4.x series.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9017

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 14:24    Post subject:  

Quote:
mikeb got in before me but thought I would post anyway.

lets fight about it.......

yeah more swap... tis a bit small and agreed on the use of an older puppy.

mike
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rayl

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 33
Location: Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, PA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 14:37    Post subject:  

Thanks to you all for the helpful comments. I noticed one person thought 192 MB ram might be an issue for puppy 5! I'm in the process of upgrading to 512 MB (waiting on the SODIMMs).
What I really found interesting is how everyone thought I would use some variant of the GRUB boot loader.
My intent is to use the WinXP loader via the boot.ini file!
Any thoughts on that approach?
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9356
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 15:05    Post subject:  

rayl wrote:
My intent is to use the WinXP loader via the boot.ini file!Any thoughts on that approach?

Read here.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 9017

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 16:36    Post subject:  

Ok curious on how you intend to boot linux using the boot.ini without some form of grub along the way..

mike
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rayl

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 33
Location: Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, PA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep 2014, 17:20    Post subject:  

rcrsn51:

I read what you referred me to and I have one question:
Do you think the "Lin'N'Win" approach will work with Slacko 5.7.0?
It wasn't mentioned as one of those flavors of puppy for which the project was created.
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Latitude

Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 76
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 02 Sep 2014, 08:36    Post subject:  

@rayl
I have previously owned a Dell C600 and I suggest that, if possible, you increase RAM. Windows 2000 and Puppy 5.2.5 ran really well with 384 MB of RAM and a Swap Partition of 768 MB.

There is no reason why the Lin 'N' Win approach won't work but I think you'll find that with only 192 MB of RAM, Win XP will be awfully slow. I had Classic Grub installed to the MBR of the Hard Drive and it worked flawlessly.

Good luck with it.

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rayl

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 33
Location: Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, PA, USA

PostPosted: Tue 02 Sep 2014, 16:01    Post subject: Shutdown/Reboot FAIL
Subject description: Shutdown and Reboot fail with "Call Trace" dump
 

Running Slacko Puppy 5.7.0.
Both shutdown & reboot fail with what looks like a kernel call trace dump to the screen and then the machine seems to hang.
I wasn't sure how to capture the output so it could be provided, if needed for debug.
I thought maybe dmesg might be the tool but the timing doesn't seem right.

Anyone know how to capture the output?

Or, any ideas on what might be the problem?
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Latitude

Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 76
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Wed 03 Sep 2014, 04:15    Post subject:  

The drivers in Puppy 5.7.0 probably don't suit the old Pentium 3 hardware.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5482
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 03 Sep 2014, 11:48    Post subject:  

Make sure you are using the Slacko 5.7 no-PAE version.

Slacko 5.7 may still not work on your hardware, but the no-PAE version has the best chance of working.

P3 processor is at the bottom limit of what Slacko is built to run on and that is very limited support.
Very much a may or may not work.

Slacko is built to support the newest hardware and what is possible for older hardware.
A moving target.
With Linux newer kernels, in general, dropping support for really old hardware. Like a P3.

These versions of a Puppy 5 series would be good to try.

Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.005
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855

Lucid 5286
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461

With a P3 system you may have to try several versions of Puppy to find one that works well with your hardware.

Any Puppy 4 versions should work.

Puppy is designed for 256MB of ram as minimum.

A swap partition is very much needed to help the memory you have.

I know you say you want to use the Windows boot.ini to boot Puppy, but the Grub4dos bootloader works very good in providing a boot menu that works for Linux, as well as booting Windows.
It also provides some useful boot options, that are Linux only options, you would not have with only using boot.ini .

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3208
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 03 Sep 2014, 13:05    Post subject:  

Here's how I've done it.

(1) Pick a Pup. For you I'd recommend trying AnitaOS (direct download link). If it boots, it will work. If it doesn't boot, it's not for you Wink

(2) Run gparted (if you haven't already) and make some space.

(3) Install your Pup in the space you made.

(4) Run grub4dos. I always check the boxes for []search only this device and []single page menu. I always edit menu.lst at the end, to remove the "safe mode" option for Puppy (it's fairly redundant IMO, and I can't think of one single example of where I'd use it), the Partition Boot Sector section, and the grub2 stuff under #Additionals. '[]search only this device' has a habit of not working very well, so if additional drives show up I pull that, too.

(5) Reboot, and if everything works, you're done. I've never had grub4dos fail me...

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rayl

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 33
Location: Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, PA, USA

PostPosted: Wed 03 Sep 2014, 15:39    Post subject:  

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.
Slacko 5.7.0 worked OK, except for the fact I had to use the power button to turn off the machine either for a re-boot or because I was done.

I'm currently running Puppy 5.5 Wary and all seems Ok, including the reboot and shutdown requests! There is one problem I noticed though and I'll probably just ignore it!

The wireless connection won't come up automatically after a shutdown but it will after a reboot -- I tried exiting X to a prompt but couldn't find a 'shutdown' command, so I used the power button and when it booted after the shutdown, the wireless connection came up without me having to do it manually!

I have a Linksys WPC11 and it seems funny under linux, but works OK under Win2k.

Since my purpose in life (at this stage in my life) is to just screw around, I'll probably try a few other options with different OSs and different network adapters (also have Linksys WUSB11v2.6 & WUSB300n and a Belden USB adapter).

Thanks to all for your help!

@Latitude-didn't seem to have any problems with any of the drivers!

@bigpup-the machine has PAE, so I didn't see any reason to try no-PAE -- but it might be worth a try. The problem seems to be with the PCMCIA network card--when it's installed, reboot/shutdown fail; when it's NOT installed, they work! With respect to your suggestions to try older pups--I tried Wary 5.5 and it seems to work OK! I may try the ones you suggest as well. AMEN to your remark about trying several versions of puppy! Puppy ver. 4 was suggested by others -- I may wind up going that way! I'm waiting on a pair of 256MB SODIMMS, so memory shouldn't be an issue in the future! My swap is about twice the 192MB RAM I currently use.
Concerning boot loaders -- I use grldr and menu.lst in the root of C: and I have ntldr via boot.ini, load grldr with a 0 timeout and default OS of 1 (Linux). It works very well and allows me to return to an all Win2k machine by simply deleting the linux partition(of course, I would edit the boot.ini file.

@starhawk-thanks for the suggestion to use AnitaOS. I'll try it on another Dell Latitude I have.
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