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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Engineering/Science/Simulation
LinuxCNC (EMC2) on Puppy
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5083
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 12 Sep 2014, 21:46    Post subject:  

Makes you wonder what the heck is so special about the kernel needs.?
All it does is read G/M code script and operate a parallel or usb port.
I don`t see that there`s any fancy drivers. Maybe a trig. module ( doubt it ).?
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Fri 12 Sep 2014, 22:17    Post subject:  

sunburnt, likewise I was wondering if there is a too simple filter/trap that just aborts to the wrong kernel error mesage before even trying to start the program.

This is one reason I was asking about just changing the name of the kernel, to fool it into thinking the kernel matched and then and see if it runs.

I don't know what is tested to determine a kernel's identity.

I could swear I once read here in the forums something about changing the name to get something to run, but haven't been able to find it.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 01:56    Post subject:  

Just checking the control file with dependencies for linuxcnc package:
Code:
Depends: libart-2.0-2 (>= 2.3.17), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libboost-python1.49.0 (>= 1.49.0-1), libc6 (>= 2.7),
libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.9.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0),
libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libglu1-mesa | libglu1, libgnomecanvas2-0 (>= 2.11.1),
libgnomeprint2.2-0 (>= 2.17.0), libgnomeprintui2.2-0 (>= 2.17.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0),
libmodbus5 (>= 3.0.2), libncurses5 (>= 5.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7),
libreadline6 (>= 6.0), libsm6, libstdc++6 (>= 4.6), libtinfo5, libusb-1.0-0 (>= 2:1.0.8), libx11-6, libxaw7, libxext6,
libxft2 (>> 2.1.1), libxinerama1, libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), libxmu6, libxss1, libxt6, tk8.5 (>= 8.5.0), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4),
linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae, rtai-modules-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae, tcl8.5, bwidget (>= 1.7),
libtk-img (>= 1.13), python (>= 2.7), python (<< 2.8), python-support (>= 0.90.0), python2.7-tk, python2.7-gnome2 | python-gnome2,
python2.7-glade2 | python-glade2, python2.7-numpy | python-numpy, python2.7-imaging | python-imaging, python2.7-imaging-tk
 | python-imaging-tk, python-gtksourceview2, python-vte, python-gst0.10, python-xlib, python-gtkglext1, python-configobj,
 tclreadline, bc, procps, psmisc, module-init-tools | kmod

Most of the dependencies will depend on other missing packages. Wish you luck fixing them manually in Puppy.

I don't think you can cheat the kernel name successful for linuxcnc. The important package for linuxcnc 2.5 and 2.6 is rtai-modules-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae. It seems to be a set of extra .ko modules loaded after starting linuxcnc depending of the program current settings. It is located in /usr directory and will work only with specific kernel. But I never tested linuxcnc so maybe I'm wrong.

Quick test shows normal gzip compressed module that works fast and well on 600Mhz processor and 128Mb RAM + SWAP partition including all linuxcnc dependencies is possible. The iso should be less than 230Mb. Sorry, it will be Debian - not Puppy.
If you can't make it work in Puppy feel free to write in the thread Sunburnt pointed.
The kernel 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae is not a big problem and seems to me you have enough experience to fix potential problems for linuxcnc package if there are any. Anyway it will be much easier to fix any problem in debian system.

BTW plop boot manager will work for you to boot 1.1Gb debian live cd from usb. You can make plop floppy disk or plop CD. I use plop a lot with very old P-II computers from floppy and usb boot works fine.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 04:28    Post subject:  

Edit: The first iso removed. Uploaded second version. Read here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=799383#799383


Anyway I already have the test module. Just builded DebianDog-Jwm-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae.iso for testing. Maybe it will help you solve some problem in Puppy.
Temporary link (will be available for download few weeks):
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/Temp-stuff/DebianDog-Jwm-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae.iso
md5sum f056544a9662e05a5f769364a74416b3
Start the program by typing linuxcnc in terminal. Starts successful only in parport diagnostic settings for me. I have no idea how to test it.
Do not use remasterdog and remastercow scripts because they will zerosize all files in /usr/share/doc but linuxcnc configuration files are there. This small conflict between keeping the smallest possible size while remstering the system and linuxcnc configuration files location is easy to fix. The important thing for the moment is to know if linuxcnc is fully functional.
I do not plan to work further on this iso. If you find it useful and works for you I will try help you fixing any problems and make it smaller and faster.
More information how to use save file/directory here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=774456&sid=a1549a06c492695f15b58bcfed76db9a#774456
And the main thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225

Edit: The iso reuploaded. I forgot to remove something from initrd1.xz. It was 7,5Mb bigger than we need. The previous iso works the same way. It just was 7,5 Mb bigger because the unneeded files.

Last edited by saintless on Mon 15 Sep 2014, 14:24; edited 1 time in total
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Revolverve

Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 99
Location: 45°17'24.9"N 72°16'03.2"W

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 12:15    Post subject:  

saintless,

That was fast work! Bravo! It does boot ok here. No cnc or breakout board to test it right now here and sadly no time to hook it at the job's cnc too ,now... but will give it a try for sure later.

Uploaded ,DebianDogrtai :
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Byia5MkbjfieNG93T0hmbWdnV3M&usp=sharing
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 12:31    Post subject:  

Thanks so much saintless!

It's running, but sim isn't working yet.

right now I'm missing modules:

hal_lib
rtapi
rtai_math
rtai_sched
rtai_hal

ps, I will be able to test in sim and all the way up to a working mill, and have the time to do it.

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1999 Thinkpad 600e hacked Pent 3, overclocked 800 mHz, 490 kb running Lupu 528

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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:28    Post subject:  

Code:
root@debian:~# linuxcnc
LINUXCNC - 2.6.3-11-gb38797a
Machine configuration directory is '/usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis'
Machine configuration file is 'gantry.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted
Realtime system did not load
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
/usr/bin/linuxcnc: line 498:  3168 Segmentation fault      $HALCMD stop

Quote:
3. Checking the RealTime subsystem
LinuxCNC uses a RealTime operating system in order to ensure precise timing of i/o signals and trajectory calculations. Error messages like one of the following may indicate that the realtime operating system is unreachable:

Can't write to /dev/rtai_shm - aborting
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory
ERROR: Could not load 'rtapi'
insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.12.6-magma/rtai/rtai_up.ko':
-1 Operation not permitted

A script is provided with LinuxCNC to load and unload all the realtime modules, and is much quicker for troubleshooting than starting and stopping all of them individually. To use it, type:

/etc/init.d/realtime


Code:
root@debian:~# /etc/init.d/realtime start
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted

_________________
Acer Aspire 5349-2635 laptop dual proc, 4gb ram, frugal Tahrpup.
1999 Thinkpad 600e hacked Pent 3, overclocked 800 mHz, 490 kb running Lupu 528

Acer Iconia A1-830 Atom x86 Android tablet
www.sredmond.com

Last edited by vtpup on Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:38; edited 2 times in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:35    Post subject:  

vtpup wrote:
right now I'm missing modules:

hal_lib
rtapi
rtai_math
rtai_sched
rtai_hal

This is strange. I don't get such message. I wonder if the kernel is not fully compatible with your hardware? Maybe older rtai-kernel is needed?
All modules from your list are available incide /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules and /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc

The kernel and rtai-modules and some firmware packages are manually added from 1.1Gb debian-linuxcnc-live-cd, but all postinstall scripts are executed and dpkg database is cheated in proper way to prevent further problems.
Linuxcnc is installed with apt-get and all dependencies are configured from the system.

When you and Revolverve make more tests I will try to help fixing the problems.

Edit: I see now your previous post, Vtpup. I will check later what message I get on my hardware.

Toni

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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:40    Post subject:  

Sorry Tony I edited the post a couple times to add more information before I saw you had replied.

Update:

The modules are present -- I just checked through xfe. So that's not the problem then. I will add the full error messages I got on xterm next post....

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Acer Aspire 5349-2635 laptop dual proc, 4gb ram, frugal Tahrpup.
1999 Thinkpad 600e hacked Pent 3, overclocked 800 mHz, 490 kb running Lupu 528

Acer Iconia A1-830 Atom x86 Android tablet
www.sredmond.com

Last edited by vtpup on Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:46; edited 1 time in total
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5083
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:44    Post subject:  

I noticed the rtai_math module, probably a trig package.
I`m guessing that the rtai is the custom CNC library that is LinuxCNC.
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 13:54    Post subject:  

Code:
root@debian:~# linuxcnc
LINUXCNC - 2.6.3-11-gb38797a
Machine configuration directory is '/usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis'
Machine configuration file is 'gantry.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted
Realtime system did not load
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
/usr/bin/linuxcnc: line 498:  3168 Segmentation fault      $HALCMD stop
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
/usr/bin/linuxcnc: line 498:  3169 Segmentation fault      $HALCMD unload all
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
        http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory     

(snip)

Error: Module hal_lib is not currently loaded
Error: Module rtapi is not currently loaded
Error: Module rtai_math is not currently loaded
Error: Module rtai_sched is not currently loaded
Error: Module rtai_hal is not currently loaded
LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in the log:
    /root/linuxcnc_debug.txt
and
    /root/linuxcnc_print.txt
as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the terminal

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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 14:10    Post subject:  

Maybe it's just marginal running in memory. Can I use a pfix = command to have it run off the mounted CD?

Here's the full Top listing:

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 14:59    Post subject:  

You can make frugal install and boot it from the hard drive.The cd runs from the cd. It does not copy to ram. You can add copy2ram parameter if needed. I gave a link above with boot code examples.

Different result here on P-III 600Mhz, 128Mb sdram + 2Gb swap partition:
Code:
root@debian:~#  /etc/init.d/realtime start
root@debian:~#  /etc/init.d/realtime start
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: File exists


Code:
root@debian:~# linuxcnc
LINUXCNC - 2.6.3-11-gb38797a
Machine configuration directory is '/usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis'
Machine configuration file is 'gantry.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: File exists
Realtime system did not load
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in the log:
    /root/linuxcnc_debug.txt
and
    /root/linuxcnc_print.txt
as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the terminal

/root/linuxcnc_print.txt:
Code:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/share/linuxcnc/tcl/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.5
INIFILE=/usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis/gantry.ini
PARAMETER_FILE=sim.var
TASK=milltask
HALUI=
DISPLAY=axis
Starting LinuxCNC server program: linuxcncsvr
Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
Killing task linuxcncsvr, PID=3500
Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
Removing NML shared memory segments

/root/linuxcnc_debug.txt:
Code:
3500
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
Stopping realtime threads
Unloading hal components


I get the same result on the same machine running 1,1Gb official debian linuxcnc iso (loads slow but manage to do the test).

I don't know if it is memory issue or the kernel is new for such old hardware.

Can you test with plop to boot from usb 1,1Gb debian if linuxcnc iso works for you? If it does not we can't do anything more with this kernel and rtai-modules.

What is the version that works on your machine (download link if possible). maybe I can get the kernel from there. We will need also the repository for linuxcnc that is included in the iso to install the same version.

I can't give any other ideas since /etc/init.d/realtime start works without problem on my hardware.

Toni
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1207
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 15:26    Post subject:  

Okay thanks Toni, I'll work on providing you with the rest of the info/questionanswers above but first want to give you the link to the Ubuntu version that runs on my Thinkpad 600SE (EU mirror):

http://dsplabs.upt.ro/~juve/emc/get.php?file=ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso

MD5SUM 1bab052ec879f941628927c988863f14


This is the 2.3.0 version of EMC (later renamed to LinuxCNC) on Ubuntu 8.04 (Lucid). I later upgraded it to LinuxCNC version 2.5.4 using these instructions:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.4
and...
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5

Kernel:

For the Ubuntu 8.04 OS used here, Kernel is 2.6.32 - 122-rtai

from user perdido:

Quote:
kernel source 2.6.32-122-rtai
Located at
http://linuxcnc.org/dists/lucid/base/source/

Found that info at
http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/31174742/


edit: Seems all kernel sources here
http://linuxcnc.org/dists/

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 15:39    Post subject:  

Ok, Vtpup.

I will see what I can do with the kernel from ubuntu version.
I never compiled kernel from source myself and even if someone compiles kernel from source will this also provide proper rtai-modules for this kernel as separate package as it is inside linuxcnc cd? Linuxcnc searches for modules in /usr directory.

There should be deb (ubuntu) packages with all available kernels and rtai modules for linuxcnc. I found in google suggestions for reinstalling rtai-modules because of similar errors:
http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc-devel/2014-07-08.html
Any ideas where we can find the repository that holds the rtai deb packages?

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