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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
HOW TO HANDLE SYSTEM CHANGES IN YOUR EXISTING DISTRO
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4436
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2014, 18:51    Post subject:  HOW TO HANDLE SYSTEM CHANGES IN YOUR EXISTING DISTRO  

Let me start by suggesting that this thread probably doesn't belong in this area. This thread is NOT about anything cutting edge as it does ask for thought to how to address a need in Puppy Linux which has been (in my thinking) overlooked over the years.

HOW TO HANDLE SYSTEM CHANGES IN YOUR EXISTING DISTRO?

I was inspired to write this when a saw another member ask about the very thing this thread is asking the larger community.

This thread asks its members for some ideas or some expansion on existing facilities to handle needed changes when they arise in such a way as the users would know of distro system service.

As much as I think the PPM would be a vehicle, I do NOT see a way for it to present "service announcement" to the user when opened.

Several Puppy members have on their own provided mechanisms to handle system service to their distro. But, each takes some liberty in how they best feel to approach service needs.

Puppy Linux needs something that the development community can agree on which would make needed service available at a button's push for users to update their running distros.

The Heartbleed, BASH are only recent example of the need that this subject would make easy for distro developers to provide without having to build new distros. And, it would make simple for the distro developer to provide comfort in updating past distro, assuming this kind of thing had been available for a longer while. This problem existed in the past when these kinds of miscues were found and we should expect future ones where this community will respond to.

So, I ask everyone, is this the right time for a consistent strategy to be placed in WOOF2 so that ALL future PUPs would come with the ability to gain critical service in a consistent fashion?

Is there risk in this kind of approach..YES. BUT the industry has dealt with and handled these risks factors, intelligently, for as long as I have been on the planet for these kinds of service provisions. Even then, we would not be doing ourselves a dis-service to have a consistent Puppy tool for needed system service without having to invest eons of time on the forum as a user.

Does this already exist?

WhatSayYou??? Question ... and how to we get it into WOOF2 with developer understanding?

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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1737
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2014, 20:29    Post subject: Re: HOW TO HANDLE SYSTEM CHANGES IN YOUR EXISTING DISTRO  

gcmartin wrote:
Let me start by suggesting that this thread probably doesn't belong in this area. This thread is NOT about anything cutting edge as it does ask for thought to how to address a need in Puppy Linux which has been (in my thinking) overlooked over the years.


SO why did you post here, knowing it did not belong? Reminds me of the people who say "No disrespect intended" and then go on to their point of being disrespectful.

Yours for less flapping of gums.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2014, 22:48    Post subject: Re: HOW TO HANDLE SYSTEM CHANGES IN YOUR EXISTING DISTRO  

tlchost wrote:
... SO why did you post here, knowing it did not belong? ...
Thanks @Tlchost, but, that is why I used the word "probably". Some will consider this the rightful place for this thread while others may feel its appropriate to be lodged somewhere else.

No matter where it is lodge, the theme remains.

We need a discussion and a consistent direction for all PUP developers to field needed service to their distro(s) running in the user's hands. The primary benefit is that users will KNOW where/how to get service for their running distro(s) without having to be on the forum or following threads. Like maybe a "bark-bark" or something.

Please contribute any ideas/knowledge you have, respectfully.

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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2014, 01:38    Post subject:  

The language is kinda fuzzy. Are you talking about notification of updates, that is, that when a new version or security update is available, that the user should be notified and able to choose to install such updates?
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct 2014, 15:19    Post subject:  

amigo wrote:
... Are you talking about notification of updates, that is, that when a new version or security update is available ...?
YES!

And anytime that the developer feels that some "service" is appropriate for the distro without needing to rebuild and re-release a distro containing these small service needs.

There is no consistent manner of doing this in Puppyland for the distro developers. This leads to each one who does this needing to create a new and different manner for this service need.
  • Can a consistent approach be discussed with the aim of having something land in WOOFCE available to all developers as Puppy continues to mature? (Of course, we all understand the benefit to distro users if it happens in all PUP distros in the usual and consistent way.)
  • There are several in use today. Is any member of this community willing to recommend something they found useful in getting service to their distro?
Idea

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1158
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct 2014, 15:37    Post subject:  

@ gcmartin

Since the plural includes the singular, here are your own words, from earlier today, converted to the singular:
Quote:
I, G C Martin, should steer away from any mode of pushing our developers leaving it to them to produce work for my use without my entering a positional personal preference that I want to be generally applied.


Here to help
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3225
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct 2014, 15:39    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Are you talking something active or something passive?
IE active would imply some system info be accessed and remotely processed to determine versions/kernels/etc. Potentially upsetting to the "tin foil hat" crowd. Rolling Eyes
A passive "Check for updates" button to wget an "Updates.xml" file to be natively processed?
An interesting idea if it can be globally implimented.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4436
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 02:31    Post subject:  

puppyluvr wrote:
Very Happy Hello,
Are you talking something active or something passive?
IE active would imply some system info be accessed and remotely processed to determine versions/kernels/etc. Potentially upsetting to the "tin foil hat" crowd. Rolling Eyes
A passive "Check for updates" button to wget an "Updates.xml" file to be natively processed?
An interesting idea if it can be globally implimented.
Whichever would work making it easy for developers to get services on their distros to the field.

Oh, we all must THANK @Jasper for his contribution to addressing a "consistent" manner of presenting services on a distro. THANKS @Jasper Laughing Seems he thinks I was asking him. Laughing And, his offer of a solution on this thread's subject is somehow a valid one. Embarassed

Here to help

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 04:00    Post subject:  

Slacko 5.7 has the Update Manager that works for Slacko.

The thing is it relies on Slackware repositories to provide the updates. If a updated file is posted to the Slackware 14 update repository, that file will show up as a listed update in the Update Manager.
I have used it to get an update for the SSL security fix and the Bash fix. So, it does give me the security updates.

It is a program you have to run to see the updates available.
It does not auto check or give you a update warning message. I can live with that. You just need to run the program, say ounce a week, and see what shows up.
A few of the listed files I have not updated because they do not seem to be anything but just newer versions of core operating files. The old saying, if it is not broken do not fix it.
Nothing I have installed, using the Update Manager, has stopped Slacko 5.7 from working properly. So, seems to be a good way to update Slacko 5.7

I consider this a cutting edge item, because Puppy has never had this ability, as a normal feature in Puppy.

The biggest problem to having something that works for all versions of Puppy is the fact that Puppy does not have an update repository like other Linux distributions.

Try finding updates for just some of the core Puppy programs. It basically turns into a hunt in this forum to see if a newer version is out.

That is the first problem to be solved.
What is going to provide the information to a update program, that an update, to something, is available?

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 05:17    Post subject:  

@ gcmartin

I quote your inconsistent words
and you mock me.
That’s consistently inconsistent.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 09:42    Post subject:  

My apologies.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 09:54    Post subject: How should this be addressed?  

Two PUPPY different developers with their own approaches come to mind as we peer into this: namely, @ETP in BLUE and @666philb in TahrPUP. I seem to recall that @BarryK may have looked at this in the past.

Their feature presents a means of getting "emergency" service to their users via a desktop feature in their distros.

The current decision, I think, is where to place the functionality so that users would always know to look at a particular menu item or desktop service to accept the service that the distro developer wants their community to be aware of for resolution of something deemed important.

And,there are other means that PUPPY has to be able to present this, assuming something can be made to be consistent across PUPs. This achieves what developers want in terms of getting necessities into the hands of their distro users.

So, this kind of thing might be suited to the PPM as @BigPUP presents indirectly. Or, ...

I think everyone sees how this presents advantages to a distro lifecycle whether its alpha, beta, GA, or aged for the developer particularly and users, generally.

Any ideas on bringing something appropriate would reduce their workloads enough that it provides a consistent means for them to rollout as the need arises.

How should this be addressed?

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labbe5

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct 2014, 10:52    Post subject: Good Idea
Subject description: updater POU and others
 

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=95802

Above : Puppy Package Update Manager

[/url]http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=86883[url]

Above : POU _ Puppy Online Updater

Some developers are trying to do just that. The implementation is not a global solution for all Puppies. Above are some interesting URL about the subject of updating.

Personally, i would like to update my Puppy from time to time. Barry used to have a service pack for Wary and Racy to make them up-to-date.

Good idea to have a thread about that.
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