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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
Going forward with Standard Puppy
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Which Puppy or Puplet would you suggest as a standard?
Slacko
26%
 26%  [ 12 ]
Precise/Lucid (Ubuntu-based)
34%
 34%  [ 16 ]
4.x/5.x (Puppy Based)
15%
 15%  [ 7 ]
FatDog (64-bit or a possible 32-bit project like fatdog)
15%
 15%  [ 7 ]
Other (This can include Quirky if one so desires)
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 46

Author Message
NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 192
Location: Halifax, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun 2015, 22:43    Post subject:  

Now that I think about it, Puppy 3x was supposed to be about Slackware Compatibility and 4x was due to being build using T2 for sources (at least that's from what I remember.)

Was Puppy 5x supposed to be basically Puppy using Woof?
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 10308
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:33    Post subject:  

Hello NeroVance and everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong and forgive me if this sounds disrespectful, but I
always had the impression that BK was using the Puppy 5 series as a "lab
mouse" while refining his woof process.

Just my 2¢. BFN.

musher0

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
« Un insensé sur le trône n'est qu'un singe sur le haut d'un toit. » / "A madman
on the throne is just a monkey on top of a roof." (Bernard de Clervaux)
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:32    Post subject: Re: Going forward with Standard Puppy
Subject description: Many puplets, seemingly lack of mainline
 

NeroVance wrote:

I'll leave a poll up for people to vote on their preferred branch and puplet, just that way we can see the usage of different ones if we do wish to go forward.


Since lucid-528 does basically what is needed for a 32 bit machine I think an effort to make a better 32 bit system should spring from there.

A 64 bit system is quite a different matter and I think something from Fatdog would be a good way to progress in 64 bit.
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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 192
Location: Halifax, Canada

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun 2015, 14:21    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hello NeroVance and everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong and forgive me if this sounds disrespectful, but I
always had the impression that BK was using the Puppy 5 series as a "lab
mouse" while refining his woof process.

Just my 2¢. BFN.

musher0


That's okay, and that kinda makes sense, it could be a mix of both perhaps mate.
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Bindee

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun 2015, 20:09    Post subject:  

Apart from the remaster and a cross script to make PET files compatible what do these projects have to do with puppy apart from the name?
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gnz11

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jul 2015, 02:23    Post subject: mainline pups  

what i can say from using puppy since 2008 is the 3 series to the 4 then to 5 was basicly the same. barry built it then variations would come out. he changed part of the build and filesystem with 431. thet 5 series was when woof became the framework to build puppy with. it was to use other distro binaries to build a pup with. and we got dpup/ spup/ upup. spup became slacko and upu became lucid and precise. the dpup is still about as dpup 487 and the new tries as debian dog. as barry stepped back.. on paper ;}, the woof build framework is what makes it an official pup. current releases are fairly official by the maintainer that is working them. we have a lot of options once again. one of the main things is to find what pup works for you and your hardware
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 11189
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug 2016, 23:06    Post subject:  

Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice Smile Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3147
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug 2016, 23:42    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice :) Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.


Actually, I feel the same. Puppy has moved towards being a medium-sized distribution, which simply leans on the back of the bigger distributions. DebianDog fulfills that slot of medium-sized bigger distribution compatible IMO - after all it provided real apt compatibility. I guess it all boils down to what Puppy is(?), why do we like it, despite (or because of) its less than fantastic package manager. There are indeed many small but excellent core apps out there, like Lxtask though there is no doubt browser bloat has become a major issue in trying to build a tiny yet full-featured-feeling Linux distribution. Puppy is still great in most ways though - I really do blame DebianDog and similar for illustrating the weaknesses of current Puppies though. Maybe it is just nostalgia for these old 2.x and 4.x puppies, which were the best in my opinion - or maybe such ultra-fast and slim puppies could indeed be kept alive, but does the public have any need for such resource friendly Pups nowadays I wonder - cpus so fast nowadays and RAM a plenty even in 9 year old machines...

It does seem painful that we can no longer hardly run a Linux distribution in less than 256MB RAM when once you could run it in less than 16...

I've heard that Puppy 'passengers' couldn't care less about frugal Pup size as long as it has all the apps they want to run. Anything else being considered just play OS for students of computing and programming...(?)

Actually, the way DebianDog is being constructed (handcrafted in many ways) is more like old Puppy building albeit with a solid dpkg database core. Saintless vanishing didn't help that project though and I sometimes wonder if it will still survive longterm (or if saintless himself will indeed come up with some new alternative - though I then wonder how that could really survive without a forum like this one).

William

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weX, scrox, Precord, Premote, fokSyfEyeR, xhippo-mod, flite_hts_pet
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1154

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2016, 03:14    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice Smile Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.

Sounds like you have enough ideas and strong opinions to create your own (public?) puppy to fit. Have you tried this before?
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 11189
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2016, 05:52    Post subject:  

Sailor Enceladus wrote:

Sounds like you have enough ideas and strong opinions to create your own (public?) puppy to fit. Have you tried this before?

Yes in the past I've done tons of puppy versions, Probably more puplets than anyone on here. Plus things like 2.14X and woof, plus lots of custom versions and helped build 2 community versions, I can tell your new here, Puppy is addictive. I just don't have the free time like I used to. Willing to help if someone wants to headup something.

_________________
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http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2016, 09:51    Post subject:  

I've glanced at the Woof CE I didn't find a common truk of scripts for linux. It instead to contain the tools for building puppylinux. My guess is that this is because puppylinux is assembled from a number of packages which are maintained separately. This probably makes development easier since different people can focus on the different components.

However, this makes it harder for people to understand how the system of a whole works if they aren't already immersed in the code. Or said another way it creates a steeper learning curve.

As a consequence, I simply copied some of the script files to a directory and uploaded them to githup:
https://github.com/s243a/test/tree/master/root/Subjects/sci/phy/tech/tech/comp/soft/op/POSIX/dist/light/medium/puppy/file/root

along with some simplemind mindmaps to help me understand what files there are and what they do. This isn't directly for development. It is more of a documentation project.

Currently, I copied the scripts from tahrup but I suspect that there is a lot of commonality between the main versions of puppylinux.

I only copied a few via drag and drop although a script could be written to automate this and assemble a larger assembly of scripts into github.
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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 192
Location: Halifax, Canada

PostPosted: Sat 11 Feb 2017, 15:25    Post subject:  

To be honest, I am thinking of getting back in the game, I do wonder if anyone has decided upon a Community Edition for Puppy 6?

I'll probably begin work myself on a Standard Puplet, I know a lot of people suggested something Ubuntu-based, but I might try something Arch Linux based since I've been using that on my new (ish) Thinkpad x130e, and it works rather well.

I'll probably begin with a clean VM on my desktop to build the first Woof images, then probably begin cutting the fat and looking at what would be good to possibly add as well, and what could use replacement. Because to be honest, I do kinda miss the days in which you had an integrated Internet Suite bundled in.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1154

PostPosted: Sat 11 Feb 2017, 16:30    Post subject:  

NeroVance wrote:
To be honest, I am thinking of getting back in the game, I do wonder if anyone has decided upon a Community Edition for Puppy 6?

Slacko and Tahrpup made it through to the Puppy 6 stage, and there are some betas like Devuan Jessie puppies. Now we are up to "7 beta" with Slacko (Slackware 14.2) and Xenialpup (Ubuntu 16.04). Making a puppy with woof-CE is much faster and more automated than when I tried to build one during the early 6.0 phase. Some projects still remaster 5 and 4 puppies too.
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 1059
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 11 Feb 2017, 19:13    Post subject:  

Why base it on anything else?

Why not base a Puppy on Puppy. Build our own pets, or better yet SFSes. I believe an SFS is easier to update (an issue lots of people have) programs.
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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 192
Location: Halifax, Canada

PostPosted: Sat 11 Feb 2017, 22:58    Post subject:  

p310don wrote:
Why base it on anything else?

Why not base a Puppy on Puppy. Build our own pets, or better yet SFSes. I believe an SFS is easier to update (an issue lots of people have) programs.


I hear you on that, but at the same time, I feel like Arch works very well for what we need, at least as an initial starting point, from which we can perhaps start building from.

Besides, where would a new Puppy start if we used Pure Puppy, what Kernel and software would we use, how far would it be behind, how much would need to be done to make it work Confused

I'll be honest, I could try it as a side project, but I'll be honest, it would be a crapshoot for my to try Embarassed

But I'll see how things go. Really what I want to see is a Puppy that finally brings back Tcl/Tk and Gnocl to the forefront and makes it a first-class language like it was back in the day. I'll probably give it a bit of a retro look like an older icon theme, and a tasteful but retro gtk theme. Probably going to avoid anything with GTK3 like the plague for now. Want to kinda make an ISO that is less than 128MB. You know, bring back some of the older puppy traditions and help keep them alive Cool
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