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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Multiple package installation/removal with PPM
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12967
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 03 Feb 2015, 17:46    Post subject:  

I am on the fence about which way looks better.

The side by side columns is more like most people are familiar with seeing.
Just seems natural to look from left to right.


One thing that does kind of bug me is the uninstall screen popping up on the left side of the main PPM window.
Took me a while to figure out how to get it to go away. It is not obvious you need to click on the uninstall button at the top of the window.

It would just be better if the uninstall screen popped up as a separate window like the configuration window does.

And a BIG thanks to everyone working to make PPM better!!!

Especially mavrothal for the coding and willingness to listen to ideas and see how they develop Very Happy !!!!

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 6608
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 03 Feb 2015, 19:30    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
One thing that does kind of bug me is the uninstall screen popping up on the left side of the main PPM window.
Took me a while to figure out how to get it to go away. It is not obvious you need to click on the uninstall button at the top of the window
Would it be better like this?

line 416:
Code:
        <eventbox name="frame_remove">
          <vbox margin="2" space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
            <notebook name="frame_remove" show-tabs="false" show-border="true">
              <vbox margin="2" space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
                <vbox spacing="0" space-expand="false" space-fill="false">
                  <hbox space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
                    <text yalign="0,8" xalign="0" use-markup="true" space-expand="true" space-fill="true"><label>"  <big><b><span color='"'#666'"'>'$(gettext 'Uninstall')'</span></b></big>"</label></text>
                    <button relief="2" space-expand="false" space-fill="false">
                      '"`/usr/lib/gtkdialog/xml_button-icon close`"'
                      <action type="activate">UNINSTALL_BOX</action>
                    </button>
                  </hbox>
                </vbox>
                <notebook show-tabs="false" show-border="true" space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
also needs a new variable name for the togglebutton (since the original is in use by another button). line 373
Code:
          <variable>UNINSTALL_BOX</variable>
Now you can click either on the close-icon or the uninstall-button.
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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1937
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue 03 Feb 2015, 20:57    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
So here is the horizontal layout of the new PPM with the same overall dimensions as the original.
I kind of like it Very Happy
Zig can probably make it better if he gets the chance/wish.

Votes?
MUCH better! It's starting to get a concise structure. I would even prefer to have the same 'description' content in the right column for upper and lower widget. I don't care much for the 'repository', the 'description' is still more valuable information for me and shouldn't get lost.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3088

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 00:12    Post subject:  

zigbert wrote:
mavrothal wrote:
Zig can probably make it better
No, he can't. This is clutter! Evil or Very Mad (imho)

The solution can be to detect width of screen at startup and increase width of main window if possible.
Code:
SCREEN_HEIGHT=$(xwininfo -root | grep -m 1 '\geometry' | cut -f4 -d ' ' | cut -f1 -d 'x')
To increase the mid-tree widget more than the right one, change the width values in line 549 and 561.

Sorry for my rant - you are all good guys, and the work mavrohtal has done here is enormous.
He should get huge amount of cred for digging inside this deepest matter of Puppy - but gui-designer - he is not.


Shocked Shocked
Wow. Where this came from?...

I believe, I never claimed to be a designer or anything else for that matter.

When ever was a GUI issue I was always referring to you waiting for some input, even after you felt you do not want to be involved very much.
However, I do believe that you do not need to be a cook to have an opinion about the food, gourmet or not.

I think that in linux, with all these cryptic names, having readily visible the descriptions of a package is good design goal. And I believe and this came up before in this (loong) thread.
buti, offered an "egg of Columbus" solution that was simple enough even for my to code, and tried it for opinions (without committing it....).
BTW it is not clear to me at all why two vertical trees are "clean" and and two horizontal "clutter", but I'll take your word for it...

Anyway, back to the GUI, I would be happy with any design that would have the descriptions as much visible as possible. I'm afraid that with the vertical implementation the GUI would look like a banner rather than a window, but I can live with it.
Regarding the Uninstall button, I would rather have the icon of the button changing with an X, if this is possible, rather than having the dark banner on the top of the frame. And another variable would also add the need for more testing at this late stage.

In any rate I would be grateful if you offer a complete functional pkg_choores.sh script for anyone to try, rather than snippets or suggestion of code that I should try to fit with the rest (took me an hour to figure out where to put the vbox to get the TREEs horizontal Very Happy ).

Cheers

@MochiMoppel When you search for a package across multiple repos you may find one in more than one repo and then repo info is very much relevant. Besides description is just above ( oops, on the left I meant Laughing )

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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 2539
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 00:34    Post subject:  

So Mavrothal if you are going with the minority, could you please release your stacked version for us clutter lubbers?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12967
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 01:01    Post subject:  

zigbert,

I think that would be better for the uninstall. Most everyone is familiar with the close-icon and what it does.

I still think the best solution would be, when you click on the uninstall button, an uninstall window pops up over the top of the main PPM window and covers most of the main PPM window.
That just seems normal to me.

Some added benefit of this:

1.The pop up window would be wider and the uninstall list would show more information. In fact, it could be wide enough to eliminate need for side scroll for that window.
Example:
Select uninstall on a default width PPM. try to use the side scroll to see the information about an installed listed package. Does not seem too easy to see what info goes to what package. Especially one listed in the middle of the list.

Now make the PPM window as wide as you can make it. Notice the width of the uninstall list changes and you see more info with less side scroll required.


2.It would also put you in a thinking mode that, I am doing only uninstall operation and nothing else.
When I close the uninstall window, I am now back in the install mode of operation.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3088

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 01:25    Post subject:  

stemsee wrote:
could you please release your stacked version

Patience young Jedi Laughing

So here is the wide layout that will fit in a 1024 or wider screen (Is actually 950 pixels). I do not know about clutter but it provides almost as much info as the horizontal stack and does not look very bad either (though I still find horizontal more "easy" to the eye and "symmetrical" Very Happy )

Regarding the uninstall window (also discussed in the past) I would rather have it overtake the entire install window if possible so not install and remove will be visible at the same time.

However the solution I would really love, is to add a column in the packages TREE that will show a check-mark for the user installed packages (I know is possible). Clicking on the check-mark triggers the remove action. Adding an "Installed" category that will be bring all the installed packages in the "Packages" TREE (or having the uninstall button do that) will facilitate the removal process. And then the whole process would be pretty analogous to installation. Just change the "Install" button to "Apply" and gray out the download options in the Modes drop down, and you are done. No extra/moving/popping windows!
Maybe, for PPM 3.0...
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Last edited by mavrothal on Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:05; edited 1 time in total
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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1937
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:03    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
@MochiMoppel When you search for a package across multiple repos you may find one in more than one repo and then repo info is very much relevant. Besides description is just above ( oops, on the left I meant Laughing )
I know that a package can be found in more than one repo, but after the user has found it and put it into the 'to be installed' queue, I see little value to see where it came from. But it's not important, just an idea.

I'm more confused here by the use of vertical and horizontal. I would call a design that has the elements side by side 'horizontal', and a design that has them stacked above and below 'vertical'.
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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 2539
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:09    Post subject:  

At the moment in ppm-wide you see packages and then packages - this will confuse noobs and stemsee! Stacked is infinitely better as one rarely installs more than 3 packages at a time, so no need to waste vertical real estate!

Love the uninstall update!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12967
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
here is the wide layout that will fit in a 1024 or wider screen (Is actually 950 pixels).

Wonder why it only seems to have made the first column wider?

If I manually make the window wider, it seems to affect both equally.
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bigpup


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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:36    Post subject:  

Are you seeing what I am seeing if you do not have a vertical scroll divider between the two columns of lists?

Yes, it looks the same in version 1.8.5

I know. It has to do with the GTK theme I am using.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3088

PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 02:58    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
here is the wide layout that will fit in a 1024 or wider screen (Is actually 950 pixels).

Wonder why it only seems to have made the first column wider?


Because
zigbert wrote:
To increase the mid-tree widget more than the right one, change the width values in line 549 and 561.

Wink
You can play till you find one that you like. I used 310 and 100
Change also values in line 351 for initial default dimension (950 in my case)

And since we are in DIY mode (...) here is the patch for the vertical stacking.
Code:
--- a/usr/local/petget/pkg_chooser.sh   2015-02-03 06:15:00.556694107 +0200
+++ b/usr/local/petget/pkg_chooser.sh   2015-02-03 19:32:57.613132174 +0200
@@ -542,7 +542,8 @@
               <action signal="changed">refresh:TREE1</action>
             </tree>
           </hbox>
-          <hbox space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
+         <vbox space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
+          <hbox space-expand="true" space-fill="true" height-request="250">
             <tree hover-selection="true" selection-mode="1" column-resizeable="true|false" space-expand="true" space-fill="true">
               <label>'$(gettext 'Package')'|'$(gettext 'Description')'</label>
               <variable>TREE1</variable>
@@ -564,6 +565,7 @@
               <action signal="button-release-event" condition="command_is_true([[ ! `cat /tmp/pkgs_to_install` ]] && echo true)">disable:BUTTON_INSTALL</action>
             </tree>
           </hbox>
+         </vbox>
         </hbox>
       </vbox>
     </hbox>

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Last edited by mavrothal on Wed 04 Feb 2015, 03:15; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 03:11    Post subject:  

Do you really like the way the search works now?

When you do a search it puts the results in the package column.

Clicking on desktop does not make it go back to showing desktop packages.
You have to click on one of the other categories to get back to showing packages in a specific repository.
It actually takes over the list for the category that was selected just before doing the search.

Also, it does not ask which repositories to search.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 03:21    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Do you really like the way the search works now?

When you do a search it puts the results in the package column.

Clicking on desktop does not make it go back to showing desktop packages.
You have to click on one of the other categories to get back to showing packages in a specific repository.
It actually takes over the list for the category that was selected just before doing the search.

Also, it does not ask which repositories to search.

I know is a long thread but yes, we concluded that asking for repository to search is pointless and taking over the packages category was always the case.
About, then clicking on the desktop is an old bug (you can see references to it form BK's era). I believe that it could be addressed but not by me...

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Feb 2015, 03:24    Post subject:  

Let me clear - It is not up to me how this gui ends.
But it's up to me if I want to put my effort into something that change the main ideas that I believe in when it comes to user interfaces.

Moving the install-packages-list to the bottom, breaks 3 of my guidelines I used when setting up the alternative ziggy gui.

1.) Overview
The ziggy gui uses one of the most common of all interface setups with menu and toolbar at top, a sidebar and the working area as the biggest.
By moving the install-packages-list, the working area are split into 3. It is a good idea to define if we are building a workspace for horizontal or vertical - not both as in the upcoming alternative.

2.) Group actions
It is most logical to group widgets that belongs together (see pic). I find it hard to see how the chosen installed packages at bottom, and the install actions at top makes things easier to understand. We don't need to fight against the human brain. It wants to group all stuff around us.

3.) Work flow
There are mainly 2 different types of user interfaces (if skipping pop-ups and wizards). - Those that offer you an environment to stick around with (like gimp, facebook, games, pmusic), and interfaces that offer you help with doing one specific task (utilities like ppm and pburn). For these utilities it is often the idea to make the user set up the wanted settings/options before pushing THE button. So, our target as developer is to 'force' the user to end up at the action button. The work flow can be set many ways, but I learned to read left-right, so I most often end up with placing the final action at right (see pic).

If you want to move the install-packages-list, I also think it would be wise to move the install actions as well. But I see challenges in how to keep the interface structured and simple this way.

KISS
Sigmund
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