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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
UEFI options for Puppy?
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B164D


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Location: West Lothian, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 07:47    Post_subject:  UEFI options for Puppy?
Sub_title: Can Puppy run on a new laptop
 

Hi, I'm a newish user usually using Windows7 or XP but have looked at Linux from time to time. I have Puppy Precise on a stick that I use for banking but recently tried Tahrpup and am loving it. My principal computer is an old laptop which is falling apart so I took advantage of the sales and got an Acer ES1-512 15.6 Inch Intel Celeron 8GB 1TB Laptop but the love of my life is in possession of it until my birthday in February. I then bought a 32GB usb 3.0 flash drive with the intention of running Tahrpup rather than preinstalled Win 8.1 and preloaded crapware.
I'm only just realising that there are potential problems since the laptop will have UEFI instead of BIOS. I understand that I should be able to get FatDog to work but can someone guide me towards what other options I might have?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 10:07    Post_subject:  

Here is a way to use Fatdog64s bootloader to boot other Puppylinux systems and with the common factory format requires only to copy files, which can be done easily with windows8.1

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=97141

In your case the iso file will need to be open by you and files copied and a match grub entry to boot. Examples GRUB lines are in the thread.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 10:26    Post_subject:  

Should bring out the reason I came up with this method was I crippled my expensive 32G usb flashdrive by reformatting it using Fatdog64 direct diskcopy method. I did not know that the simple reformating of some flashdrives cause it to lose performance and greatly reduced lifespan.
I bought it for the size and speed and it was pricy so DO NOT REFORMAT IT.
Hope I caught you in time to learn from my mistakes.

The 32G flashdrive was also so tiny it looked like a tick on the side of my laptop. Colored Black and quicky lost. I wish they made glow in the dark cases for those ultra tiny USB drives. Next one I get or if I find my old one its getting a hit of glow in the dark paint.
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B164D


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Location: West Lothian, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 14:34    Post_subject:  

Many thanks Ted Dog - will post how I get on mid-February once I've got my paws on the new laptop.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 15:20    Post_subject:  

Heck may even be Alpha quality by then. Its a frustrating chicken and egg like problem with Win8. Also so few are pressed into NEEDing a new computer and with UEFI its a whole new method and ways of doing things.
Not as bad as some think but also horribly tricked by Microsoft to Windows8 own demise. I hope before you need it I can supply a help text or web page in next release. Windows does require a few stuff reconfigured ( mostly turned off ) So Windows can't hurt itself if you desire to run Linux between reboots of windows.
That is the only real gotta. Till Microsoft desides to revoke Fatdog64 secure boot keys. Crying or Very sad We reuse his keys to boot others puppylinux spins. Do not know how that works but use fatdog64 first ( currently keys are from v631 ) to register the key to your machine and from then on any other puppy spin seems to boot fine including 32bit ones.
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Galbi


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 555
Location: Bs.As. - Argentina.

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 15:52    Post_subject:  

Sorry, just for clarification... the problems between Linux and UEFI, they exist because there is Windows 8 in the middle?
I mean, in a new computer without a pre-loaded OS (or without hard disk at all) is problematic to boot a Linux?

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 16:46    Post_subject:  

matters if UEFI has a secured boot requirement and who the hardware manufacturer preinstalls key. So in theory no but in practice YES. RedHat secure boot UEFI has its own secure key. And a price for the hardware to match. Now if you are going to DYI motherboard, I believe it defaults to unsecured boot mode if NO OS is implemented. If you register Fatdog64 keys then that would be the Master Key on that board. And you can lock Microsoft out if wanted.
Fatdog64 bootloader which this is based skips the key exchanges if not needed.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3468
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 16:51    Post_subject:  

Within UEFI there is (always, AFAIK) an option to turn off "Secure Boot" (which is to say, Secure-For-Microsoft's-Wallet Boot Wink ) and to enable "Legacy BIOS Emulation" (both will be /approximately/ those phrases) -- turn off Secure Boot and turn on Legacy BIOS and you're good to go Wink you won't lose anything other than Windows, but that's not a serious loss to begin with...
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6065
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 17:12    Post_subject:  

I build my own machines so have UEFI but no secure boot.......... I've had zero problems booting anything I choose on my UEFI boxes.

I'll pass on both secure boot and the Microsoft tax.... Smile
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 17:25    Post_subject:  

second clarification UEFI and Linux have no issue. Windows thinks its the only thing that will ever boot up on the machine so is sloppy with cached disk reads layouts stored in a file on the harddrive. It does not reread the drive to see if stuff had moved or changed, therefore it has a high probably of data corruption. Add linux to the mix which will scan and repair or worse drop a tiny text file in root of each drive division to identity those that need fsck.ing in same area the information is stored, thereby changing disk layout.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 17:33    Post_subject:  

As you can see almost everyone can boot machine in unsecured mode to boot with UEFI. My Acer needed to change one setting and clear or set a password then the selection of secure or not secure boot UEFI was changible.
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Galbi


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 555
Location: Bs.As. - Argentina.

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 19:20    Post_subject:  

About a year ago, I bought for my wife a new machine, with UEFI and no OS.

The first I did was to partition the HD and installed frugallly Puppy.

Haven't got any trouble and later installed a torrented Win7, no problem again.

The thing it's that I haven´t found some way to disable UEFI or to load Legacy BIOS. I´ll check it more carefully.

So potencial problems are only with Windows 8 and rebooting between Linux and Win, is this correct?

Older versions of Windows don't have this issue?

Thanks for your patience.

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 20:18    Post_subject:  

I followed the guidance in this document PXE - Easy start to install a PXE server on a old desktop running Slacko 5.3.3 and where the same initrd/vmlinuz files used to boot that Puppy are also served by the PXE

Turn secure boot off on a Windows box and provided the network card supports net booting (most do) its then just a matter of pressing the <esc> key during initial power on and then selecting the net boot option from the menu - and up pops puppy on the Windows box ...... Reboot to resume normal Windows working. No keys required and you don't even need to mount any of the Windows PC drives when Puppy is booted/running.

I'm tempted to get one of those small 'PC' (something like a Raspberry Pi) - low power (micro watts or whatever), and leave that always on (plugged into the LAN) with a Puppy PXE server installed/running on that to enable any household PC to net boot Puppy as/when required/desired.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6065
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 20:28    Post_subject:  

Galbi wrote:

So potencial problems are only with Windows 8 and rebooting between Linux and Win, is this correct?

Older versions of Windows don't have this issue?


From my experiences, Windows 8/8.1 doesn't cooperate in a multi-boot environment with Linux or older Windows install. Something to do with the "fast-boot" mess.
Had Windows 8 installed on a older box,legacy bios (no UEFI) with Windows 7 and various Linux installs. Every time Windows 8 was booted it caused hard drive corruption leading to disk check when booting into something else.

Deleted Windows 8 .... for good.

There are workarounds but I don't like 8 so I removed it.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2949
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2015, 20:47    Post_subject:  

Yes JamesC has experienced the brain dead behavior of Windows8 to self distruct. So have I when tring to dual boot with a hybrid BIOS and GPT hardrive almost had it working and bam Windows stuck in a repair loop.
I found to use Windows tools to shrink OS part and then linux to format it Plus turn off hybernate and fast boot settings. Also a hard shutdown each time to boot linix cleanly. Oh just do not actually use the OS partion at all that is why I shrunk it and used the left over for linux.
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