Joe Wingbermuehle has recently considered switching the license of jwm to an ISC license which fits with the various BSD projects. This got me thinking about doing a puppy-like package for mfsBSD or a base install of the other popular BSDs if there is any interest.
This would be more of an alpha for PLiNG (Puppy Linux Next Gen) where the OS is flexible (anything POSIX), the user is not assumed to be root, and Rox-Filer is replaceable by a default desktop environment (Rox, PCManFM, Thunar, full-Gnome, full-KDE, jwm-only etc...) ... I already have jwm doing most of the work of a desktop environment (icons need some work)
This goes along the lines of Barry's Easy Linux project except that I'm rewriting all of the shell scripts from scratch. I already rewrote most of it for the microsaurus init system (combines init, /sbin/init, xinit and other scripts into 1 c program) and jwm-tools (optimized shell scripts to help jwm take over the role of desktop environment), so its not as much work as it seems.
PupBSD anyone?
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technosaurus
- Posts: 4853
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
- Location: Blue Springs, MO
- Contact:
PupBSD anyone?
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].
And who's going to be the beneficiary of such a grand project?
*Puppy Linux Is Dead* - let's face it.
There are simply not enough users left for *any* new project. We are not a thriving community of Linux enthusiasts. This place is a gathering of 60-70 year old parasitic passengers
By my optimistic count, there are less than one hundred (100) Puppy users worldwide, including the newly liberated areas, such as Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.
*Puppy Linux Is Dead* - let's face it.
There are simply not enough users left for *any* new project. We are not a thriving community of Linux enthusiasts. This place is a gathering of 60-70 year old parasitic passengers
By my optimistic count, there are less than one hundred (100) Puppy users worldwide, including the newly liberated areas, such as Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.-
technosaurus
- Posts: 4853
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
- Location: Blue Springs, MO
- Contact:
you can still run as root, but too many puppy scripts are hard-coded to assume $HOME == /root ... which is completely pointless. To open files they use rox instead of xdg-open or even assume a specific program is installed (abiword comes to mind) Since I am starting from a clean slate with no GPLed puppy code, I can avoid these assumptions so that it will work with a wide range of distributions.april wrote:If you are considering taking away my usage as root then I for one won't be following you
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].
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sheldonisaac
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2009, 01:36
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
"Puppy Linux Is Dead"
I'm an 81-year-old parasitic passenger.anikin(in part) wrote:*Puppy Linux Is Dead*
..This place is a gathering of 60-70 year old parasitic passengers
Dell E6410: BusterPup, BionicPup64, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
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Sailor Enceladus
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Mon 22 Feb 2016, 19:43
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technosaurus
- Posts: 4853
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
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- Contact:
I'm already writing this anyhow because I personally want to be able to use other linux distros in addition to freeBSD and netBSD and still have a basic puppy-like desktop. If no one else is interested though, I won't bother with version control.
For non x86 on Linux I am using xfbdev from the tinyxserver project. X86 typically does better with xvesa(also from tinyxserver). For BSD on non-x86 I will need to patch tinyxserver with either wscons (from xenocara) or sdl from xorg<1.5. Jwm with my stb-image and nanosvg patches for the wm. Suckless terminal as the terminal emulator. Then toybox for many utilities. I know these aren't necessarily the preferred apps for everyone, but their licenses allow them to be made into a single, static multicall binary so they will work even if a package update screws up libc or libX1.
For non x86 on Linux I am using xfbdev from the tinyxserver project. X86 typically does better with xvesa(also from tinyxserver). For BSD on non-x86 I will need to patch tinyxserver with either wscons (from xenocara) or sdl from xorg<1.5. Jwm with my stb-image and nanosvg patches for the wm. Suckless terminal as the terminal emulator. Then toybox for many utilities. I know these aren't necessarily the preferred apps for everyone, but their licenses allow them to be made into a single, static multicall binary so they will work even if a package update screws up libc or libX1.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].
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jlst
Looks like a good idea, it's true when they say puppy is somewhat stalled or "dead", so doing things as simple as possible is the only solution, there's no manpower, there's not enough people to test/willing to test... there is not even communication between developers. so i think one has to do everything.
@technosaurus
Interesting concept, I will be watching this thread with keen interest.
As regards the number of Puppy users, I do wonder what the actual figure is.
I don't believe it's as low as 100, although certainly not in the thousands.
This assumption is based on this forum's stats which indicate that there are over 35 000 members (although a large percentage don't contribute, communicate or visit very often).
There are also over 900 000 articles.
Not sure if that means threads or posts, but either way it's a large number.
Then what is interesting is the visitor stats, on average around 120 -150 members sign in but also between 20 000 and 25 000 visitors on a daily basis.
So I have to ask, are all those just random? I doubt it, they came here for a reason.
Furthermore, if one does a search for a "small distro", Puppy features rather high on the list.
Surely all this indicates that there must be more than a hundred and even a few hundred users?
Interesting concept, I will be watching this thread with keen interest.
As regards the number of Puppy users, I do wonder what the actual figure is.
I don't believe it's as low as 100, although certainly not in the thousands.
This assumption is based on this forum's stats which indicate that there are over 35 000 members (although a large percentage don't contribute, communicate or visit very often).
There are also over 900 000 articles.
Not sure if that means threads or posts, but either way it's a large number.
Then what is interesting is the visitor stats, on average around 120 -150 members sign in but also between 20 000 and 25 000 visitors on a daily basis.
So I have to ask, are all those just random? I doubt it, they came here for a reason.
Furthermore, if one does a search for a "small distro", Puppy features rather high on the list.
Surely all this indicates that there must be more than a hundred and even a few hundred users?
I'm in my mid-thirties and came to linux (puppylinux in particular) only about 2 years ago when microsoft stopped supporting windows XP.anikin wrote:And who's going to be the beneficiary of such a grand project?
*Puppy Linux Is Dead* - let's face it.
There are simply not enough users left for *any* new project. We are not a thriving community of Linux enthusiasts. This place is a gathering of 60-70 year old parasitic passengers
although I can sort of relate -- it felt old to me, at first, too... ya get used to it tho.-
april
Forum index » Memberlist
Page 840 of 840 [25191 Users]
100 ? total fabrication
Wake up
Why do people just make up a number to suit their proposition/argument and just lie about stats ?
I use it to teach young kids a start into whats available in Linux .
They usually then go out and explore other distros as they increase their knowledge
I use and like it because I am root and don't keep hitting permission problems . If I mess up it is easy to start again.
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technosaurus- I hav'nt used BSD . The rewriting of scripts is always a time consuming episode but many of puppys scripts need it badly . Early developers seem to have naturally moved to other things out of interest. For me speed of boot and close , size of distro and being root are all important.
If you can make BSD in the same vein I would be quite happy to join in.
Page 840 of 840 [25191 Users]
100 ? total fabrication
Wake up
Why do people just make up a number to suit their proposition/argument and just lie about stats ?
I use it to teach young kids a start into whats available in Linux .
They usually then go out and explore other distros as they increase their knowledge
I use and like it because I am root and don't keep hitting permission problems . If I mess up it is easy to start again.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
technosaurus- I hav'nt used BSD . The rewriting of scripts is always a time consuming episode but many of puppys scripts need it badly . Early developers seem to have naturally moved to other things out of interest. For me speed of boot and close , size of distro and being root are all important.
If you can make BSD in the same vein I would be quite happy to join in.
I'm also having a hard time believing it.april wrote:....
100 ? total fabrication
As I write this, it's Sunday 20:08 (forum time which is UTC-4), meaning it's mid-morning or early afternoon in the USA/Canada, round about 10pm - 12am in Europe and between 8am and 10 am in OZ (Monday morning) and lunch time in NZ, taking into account that most members here fall into one of those regions, it should be a quiet period (i.e. either Sunday morn/afternoon or Monday morning - work day) and yet the forum stats show:
19 Registered, 3 Hidden and 808 Guests within the current hour
and
There have been 20962 users online since yesterday :: 138 Registered, 14 Hidden and 20810 Guests
Only 100 users?? No chance.
post subject
@ technosaurus,
What advantage does BSD offer over Linux?
@ anikin and april -- Puppy User count is misleading. It's a simple sum of those who joined the forum at any time. That formula does not include any reduction for those who announced they are "dropping out" or just moved on in silence.
On the other hand, I suspect that with gifts from users to non-users, especially in the 3rd World where broadband access to the internet is sketchy and available computers lack the powerful CPUs, Multi-gibabytes of RAM and Terabytes of storage, Puppies continue to provide a useful operating system. So, 100 is an unreasonably low estimate.
It's not that Puppy couldn't be a viable distro. It's just that we now have too many chiefs and not enough indians.
If my recollection serves me, several years ago anikin questioned the wisdom of woof. Before woof, Barry K performed the "grunt work" of compiling binaries from source. Woof proved its worth as a short term fix. We've had "cutting edge" Puppies for the last several years by flinching the binaries of other distros.
But at some point, woof became a seductress, attracting the attentions of a significant number of our most seasoned Devs who now employ their time in "perfecting" it for this and the next round of Linux versions produced by other distros rather than perfecting Puppy.
And the target of that perfection has changed. Even 5 year old computers today --those whose users are looking for an alternative to Windows-- except, perhaps, in 3rd world countries, offer far greater resources than the computers which were 5 years old 5 years ago. "Small footprint" is nice, but not necessary.
Still, a distro which maximized RAM for applications by using SFSes loaded on the fly, and light-weight window and file-managers would have a significant place among Linux distros provided it also offered easy installation of those applications which would benefit by having that maximization. I know of one kind of application where that is important: video editors. I'm sure that there are other applications where it matter to the user how fast a project is completed.
No one with the necessary skill and experience is working on the currect versions of "full-fledged" video editors, such as Flowblade or Shotcut, for any version of Puppy. Which means, of course, if I want to use them, I'll have to run a Ubuntu or debian (or their spin-offs).
One reason I've used Puppy, as you may know from my posts, is the ease with which I am able to setup "program folders" -- external (to puppy-space) applications which are symlinked to the OS. I've forgotten their names, but recent announcements suggest that some group is working on a framework for external programs which can be used by "all" major distros.
Which raises the question even I keep asking myself: Why should I run Puppy at all? Other than some sense of loyalty and that I've invested several years learning its quirks.
Here's what I suggest if Puppy isn't just going to be something fondly remembered like Atari or Commodore: Those experienced with woof should pick ONE distro --either debian or Ubuntu only because nothing about Slackware is cutting edge. Draw straws if you have to. Or enlist the services of Jamesbond and kirk who have demonstrated the patience to compile binaries from source via the T2 Kit. Create One Puppy at the cutting edge. Then spend your time compiling cutting edge applications a user can install via ppm, or download and run as SFSes.
That may not offer as much personal "glory" as woofing your own Puppy. But what glory is there in once having been among the best in an endeavor which failed?
mikesLr
What advantage does BSD offer over Linux?
@ anikin and april -- Puppy User count is misleading. It's a simple sum of those who joined the forum at any time. That formula does not include any reduction for those who announced they are "dropping out" or just moved on in silence.
On the other hand, I suspect that with gifts from users to non-users, especially in the 3rd World where broadband access to the internet is sketchy and available computers lack the powerful CPUs, Multi-gibabytes of RAM and Terabytes of storage, Puppies continue to provide a useful operating system. So, 100 is an unreasonably low estimate.
It's not that Puppy couldn't be a viable distro. It's just that we now have too many chiefs and not enough indians.
If my recollection serves me, several years ago anikin questioned the wisdom of woof. Before woof, Barry K performed the "grunt work" of compiling binaries from source. Woof proved its worth as a short term fix. We've had "cutting edge" Puppies for the last several years by flinching the binaries of other distros.
But at some point, woof became a seductress, attracting the attentions of a significant number of our most seasoned Devs who now employ their time in "perfecting" it for this and the next round of Linux versions produced by other distros rather than perfecting Puppy.
And the target of that perfection has changed. Even 5 year old computers today --those whose users are looking for an alternative to Windows-- except, perhaps, in 3rd world countries, offer far greater resources than the computers which were 5 years old 5 years ago. "Small footprint" is nice, but not necessary.
Still, a distro which maximized RAM for applications by using SFSes loaded on the fly, and light-weight window and file-managers would have a significant place among Linux distros provided it also offered easy installation of those applications which would benefit by having that maximization. I know of one kind of application where that is important: video editors. I'm sure that there are other applications where it matter to the user how fast a project is completed.
No one with the necessary skill and experience is working on the currect versions of "full-fledged" video editors, such as Flowblade or Shotcut, for any version of Puppy. Which means, of course, if I want to use them, I'll have to run a Ubuntu or debian (or their spin-offs).
One reason I've used Puppy, as you may know from my posts, is the ease with which I am able to setup "program folders" -- external (to puppy-space) applications which are symlinked to the OS. I've forgotten their names, but recent announcements suggest that some group is working on a framework for external programs which can be used by "all" major distros.
Which raises the question even I keep asking myself: Why should I run Puppy at all? Other than some sense of loyalty and that I've invested several years learning its quirks.
Here's what I suggest if Puppy isn't just going to be something fondly remembered like Atari or Commodore: Those experienced with woof should pick ONE distro --either debian or Ubuntu only because nothing about Slackware is cutting edge. Draw straws if you have to. Or enlist the services of Jamesbond and kirk who have demonstrated the patience to compile binaries from source via the T2 Kit. Create One Puppy at the cutting edge. Then spend your time compiling cutting edge applications a user can install via ppm, or download and run as SFSes.
That may not offer as much personal "glory" as woofing your own Puppy. But what glory is there in once having been among the best in an endeavor which failed?
mikesLr
Re: post subject
Indeed and it's something that worries me as much of my day is taken up by either editing, rendering or transcoding.mikeslr wrote:.... I know of one kind of application where that is important: video editors. I'm sure that there are other applications where it matter to the user how fast a project is completed.
No one with the necessary skill and experience is working on the currect versions of "full-fledged" video editors, such as Flowblade or Shotcut, for any version of Puppy. Which means, of course, if I want to use them, I'll have to run a Ubuntu or debian (or their spin-offs).
....
As it stands, I sometimes have to resort to going over to the dark side and use editors there, but don't want to hijack this thread so will leave it at that.
20962 users online since yesterday
Hi all and especially technosaurus,
I didn't think I was hijacking a thread which was already hijacked. technosaurus asked if anyone was interested in a PupBSD. I think my answer was "Yes, but..."
technosaurus has been a stalwart of Puppy longer than I've been a "passenger". Anything he does is both interesting and informative. It's just that I don't see the value of another flavor of Puppy, especially if Puppy ceases to competitive for the hearts and minds of those seeking a Window's alternative.
20962 users online since yesterday --even allowing reduction by half for those who accessed this Website multiple times-- suggests there is still a large market of those seekers.
I have neither the talent nor experience to take Puppy in the direction I believe it needs to go. And at 75, I'm not going to devote the time it will take to develop that talent. I can only suggest to others who already have it --such as technosaurus-- or are young and have sufficient interest to develop it, that in the end an operating system --any operating system-- is simply a platform from which to run applications.
The "best" operating system is the one which supports applications most efficiently.
mikesLr
I didn't think I was hijacking a thread which was already hijacked. technosaurus asked if anyone was interested in a PupBSD. I think my answer was "Yes, but..."
technosaurus has been a stalwart of Puppy longer than I've been a "passenger". Anything he does is both interesting and informative. It's just that I don't see the value of another flavor of Puppy, especially if Puppy ceases to competitive for the hearts and minds of those seeking a Window's alternative.
20962 users online since yesterday --even allowing reduction by half for those who accessed this Website multiple times-- suggests there is still a large market of those seekers.
I have neither the talent nor experience to take Puppy in the direction I believe it needs to go. And at 75, I'm not going to devote the time it will take to develop that talent. I can only suggest to others who already have it --such as technosaurus-- or are young and have sufficient interest to develop it, that in the end an operating system --any operating system-- is simply a platform from which to run applications.
The "best" operating system is the one which supports applications most efficiently.
mikesLr
Hello,My Facebook Puppy Linux users group has well over 2,000 members. Most of them quite Young.
The assumption that puppy is a dead distro used by old folks is ridiculous..
Linux Mint on the other hand....
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!
Puppy since 2.15CE...
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!
Puppy since 2.15CE...