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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Muppy 008.2 (Feb 01, 2008) outdated
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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 15 Feb 2008, 12:24    Post subject:  

Hi MU,

well tried is with another burned cd but the same happens.

I started with xvesa and killed python and the icedock with apps so that i could work a little.

i started gps, here are the results (but... as i can't surf in muppy - no browser ever started - i wrote the following list by hand and forgot you wrote CPU-usage). So the list is by size, does this help too???

Here's the list:
x 23.060 k
Rox-Filer 16.412 k
3 13.444 k
blinky 13.104 k
freememapplet-t 11.672 k
icewmtray 6.380 k
exposestart 5.240 k
cupsd 3.932 k
autocutsel 3.724 k
xwin 3.024 k
xinit 2.724 k
...

if this won't help, i will start another trial with the CPU-Usage.

aragon
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 15 Feb 2008, 13:24    Post subject:  

yes, this will not help unfortunately.

Please click twice on the cpu-usage.
The first click "sorts" it by lowest usage, the second click will show the most resource-intensive ones first.
Those we need to know.

Mark

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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue 19 Feb 2008, 05:53    Post subject:  

Hi Mu,

back again. I tried it once more from a thumbdrive. Boots faster but same problems:

- Xorg does not work. Xvesa works.
- No working possible because of the system/mem-usage.

Here's the list with continuus refresh and cpu-usage:

runexpose: 4.0
3: 2,8
X: 1,2
3: 1,1
iu_gps: 1,0
freememapplet-t: 0,7
wmsm: 0,5
conky: 0,4
kswapd0: 0,3
blinky: 0,3
wmtop: 0,3
loop0: 0,2
autocutsel: 0,2
wmfishtime: 0,2
init: 0,1
....

Aragon
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Tue 19 Feb 2008, 06:10    Post subject:  

that is no high usage.
You can deactivate the start of expose by deleting the entry in "autostart" on the desktop (then restart X).
But 4% CPU-load is not high.

I currently have no idea, what causes your slow performance.
Maybe an erratic display driver?

Anyone has an idea?

Mark

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Tue 19 Feb 2008, 20:55    Post subject:  

Hello Mark, I am trying mini-Muppy 008.2. First of all, thanks for thinking about us non-German speakers! Smile I took some German in school but never got comfortable with it.

I ran into a couple of snags upgrading from Puppy 2.16.1. My computer is an old Thinkpad A21m with 320MB of memory, and I'm booting from the CDROM.

1) It said "checking if version update" and then nothing for a long while. I'm assuming it went through the usual but it was disconcerting that no printout happened like it usually does with puppy. Is that intentional?

2) I had to run the network wizard to tell it what profile to use. Then my internet connection was OK.

3) It couldn't find my old pup_save. I finally noticed you called yours "msy" so I renamed mine (keeping a backup of course) and then Muppy found it. I'd suggest muppy become pup_save aware, asking if a pup_save should be used, or at least suggesting to the user (if a pup_save is found but no msy_save), that a rename has to take place for muppy to find it.

4) I noticed when I select "reboot computer" from the menu it still prints the message suggesting the computer be turned off. A minor thing...

5) There was a bit of a bobble getting xorg running. When I finally got through running xorgwizard I got xorg running, except I have no wallpaper or icons. Only the menu/taskbar. I am using it now to post this, but probably it would be nice to have icons. Wink

I think I am going to retrace my steps, this time though I am going to uninstall everything in 2.16.1 first to clean out any extraneous old stuff and also save the upgradefiles from /tmp like I usually do (by the way, that has always been an irritation in Puppy for me - that the upgradefiles only exist over one boot because they are stored in /tmp, so if you forget to save them they are lost forever. I wish they were placed in /root so they'd stay around for a while).

Thanks for all the hard work!

Last edited by PaulBx1 on Wed 20 Feb 2008, 00:24; edited 1 time in total
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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Tue 19 Feb 2008, 21:52    Post subject:  

One other item.

In 2.16.1 Seamonkey had an annoying habit of crashing while watching long youtubes, for example, about 2/3 of the way through this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4gRRk2i-M
I could then restart Seamonkey and it would work OK (except for long youtubes).

I was hoping Muppy would clear that up because of its later version of Seamonkey. Instead, it is worse. About 1/4 of the way through that youtube it hangs; shortly after that the cursor freezes, and apparently there is no way to get out of it other than rudely powering-off the computer.

(Edit)
I tried this again while watching "top". Seamonkey started with around 83% of the cpu and that stayed the same all the way through (seemed high...). Seamonkey also consumed 58% of memory at the beginning. After a while there was a temporary stoppage, then after it continued the memory consumption went up to 69% and stayed there for a while. Then I got the hang; the last reading I got out of top before it hung was 110% of memory, which I thought was a good trick.
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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 00:22    Post subject:  

It occurs to me that it would be handy to be able to boot Muppy and mini-Muppy on the same machine, using the same msy_save file. Is this possible? I'm guessing the .sfs file would have to be named differently between the two versions, on the hard drive. That is, they both can't be named msy_082.sfs

The reason I'd like this is that most times I'd be using mini-Muppy, but occasionally I want the full load of applications even if it runs slower.

Of course if one has only Firefox as a browser and the other only Seamonkey, that won't work.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 00:28    Post subject:  

you can use the addons.sfs for Mini-Muppy.
Then it has all the programs from the big Standard-Muppy.

Concerning the upgrade:
when I upgraded an older Muppy, I got a lot of messages during the upgrade.
It is not intended, that you saw none.

Mark

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 12:56    Post subject:  

I redid the upgrade from 2.16.1, this time first uninstalling all packages and compressing mail folders, etc. Same result.

I looked in /tmp after boot and there was no versioncleanup directory, so it looks like no upgrade took place.

Again, I have no icons and a blank screen except for the taskbar.

I want to make sure I am doing the right thing. I simply booted into ram, and renamed my pup_save_crypta216.2fs to msy_save_crypta082a.2fs, and booted Muppy which found the latter.

I noticed that the file /initrd/PUPPYVERSION is "082". This is less than "216" from my Puppy. Could that be what is stopping the upgrade?

I have saved all the files from /tmp and from /initrd/tmp from this boot. One thing I noticed in /tmp/bootsysinit.log that looked strange:
Code:
Mounting devpts: Mounting /sys: Unionfs layers have changed since previous boot, fixing menu...
Generating master help page /usr/share/doc/index.html...
Processing /usr/share/doc/pctel.txt
Processing /usr/share/doc/LinNeighborhood.txt
Processing /usr/share/doc/Pudd.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/Xdialog.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/abiword.htm
... many more of these...
Processing /usr/share/doc/xnetload.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/yaf-splash.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/ycalc.txt
Generating /root/.icewm/menu...
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12041): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12056): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12071): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

...many more of these...


Does that tell you anything?

By the way I noticed every minute or so my disk starts thrashing around when it should be quiet. I looked at "top" and it is the "find" command. What is going on with that?
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Barburo


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 00:26    Post subject:  

Hi PaulBx1,
It's probably best to start fresh with a new .2fs save file. Remember that this Muppy release of MU's is still under development and will have some bugs. I tried it at first with my existing save file but things were not quite right. I did a clean install and no problems (at least not relating to set-up).

Back up your existing save file, boot from CD with the pfix=ram parameter, set up xorg and anything else you want, and save a new .2fs file. I always give it a name relative to the Pup I'm setting up (it asks you for a distinguishing string). Muppy has a built-in utility for mounting previous .2fs or .sfs files by clicking on them. This lets you retrieve any files or data that you previously stored in them. (Tip: to avoid having to re-download PETs you need, simply keep them in a previous .2fs file instead of deleting them after the PET has installed. New Pup? Copy the PET file from the .2fs file to your new file system and run it.) See other posts in this forum about NOT doing full installs for Puppy - you don't need to, it wasn't really designed to be used that way.

In any case with any of the Pups based on Barry's 3.xx series you can group the files for that Pup together in a subdirectory. This makes it easy to keep different versions separate. I make a frugal install for each one, then use Grub for a menu. If you specify psubdir in the Grub entry in menu.lst it will look for a save file first in that sub directory. It's quite simple (even I can do it!) In fact you don't even need to do the frugal install - just look inside the mounted CD, copy the files you need (vmlinuz, initrd.gz, current save file, zxxx.sfs and any other .sfs files ) to the sub directory, and add a new entry to Grub's menu.lst. I run grub from an existing NTFS partition where I also store all of the subdirectories containing save and squash files. Each is Typically less than 1Gb in size. I only need ext3 partitions for a Linux swap file (about 500Mb) and for Ubuntu (8Gb or so). All Pups run from a save file and in memory so they don't touch the rest of the installation. To keep the size of .2fs files down I frequently store information "outside" of the .2fs system. If you don't want to mount extra volumes simply use /mnt/home to store stuff on NTFS. No problems for me doing this.

One other trick you may find useful if you have Vista pre-installed and want to run one or more Puppies without having to use a CD each time. Vista gets really touchy about anything interfering with its set-up. You can leave the existing MBR alone and add an entry to the boot-loader for Vista by using a (free) windows program called EasyBCD1.5, which will add an entry to the boot menu. Choose this option and a "Grub for DOS" menu is displayed. The Grub files with menu.lst are in a directory NST on the Vista partition. You can also store your Puppy sub-directories on the Vista C:\ partition. In this way you can run multiple Puppies without using the CD and without touching Vista. (Other entries in this forum also describe using EasyBCD).
**Warning - if you want to partition your disk, use Vista to do the first repartition or you will "lose" the Vista install. (EasyBCD can get it back for you if you do). Once you have Vista defined in its own partition you can use gparted in Puppy to repartition the remaining space however you like.

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wetterau

Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 20:59    Post subject: Mini Muppy 8.2
Subject description: thanks
 

Mark, just to say thanks for your hard work. Mini-Muppy 8.2 works very well on my Thinkpad T23, 512mb ram, 40gb hd. Just a balanced, sensible, well thought out system. I use it day in, day out, no problems. Highly recommended!
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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2008, 17:48    Post subject:  

Barburo, thanks for the tips. I guess I have resigned myself to using a pupsave generated from Muppy, rather than from Puppy. I was kinda guessing that was the way it would go. A shame really...

Much of the other does not apply to me. I boot off CD, and the only OS on my hard drive is Win98. No frugal install or grub; I just open the CD drawer if I want a Windows boot.

If I still have the youtube problem, I will either try to upgrade Seamonkey or give up on Muppy. Almost the only reason I am shopping around for a new puppy derivative is to fix things that don't work in Puppy 2.16. Obviously if they get worse, I am not interested.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2008, 18:29    Post subject:  

I can see that video without problems, it just has a quite high CPU-usage.
But I upgraded my seamonkey:
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Internet/Seamonkey-nightly/

Also Muppys Firefox plays it well.
It has automatically upgraded itself to version 2.0.0.12.
I activated Flash 9 in the Internet-menu.

Mark

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb 2008, 19:20    Post subject:  

Quote:
Muppy has a built-in utility for mounting previous .2fs or .sfs files by clicking on them.


I just tried this; it does not work. Gives the message "Failed mounting or unmounting." Looked into it; it does not support encrypted pupsaves. Mount-FULL is there, which is what I used in my convert-pupsave utility for encrypted files.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb 2008, 19:41    Post subject:  

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=23056

PaulBx1 once explained how to mount encrypted pups by hand Smile
Mark

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