package management stinks

Message

sc0ttman · #21 Post by **sc0ttman** » Mon 27 Jun 2011, 21:11

I'm sure others will disagree, but I find the PPM good enough

I like the newer version, zigberts scalable GUI

I like when people add the dependencies to the .PET files,
so that the deps are automatically installed, if needed.

The biggest problem is not the PPM itself, IMHO..

The main issue for me, is the lack of packages listed in the repos,
compared with other distros - there is not so much there.

However, as has been pointed out already on this thread,
like most Puppy users:

- I get my packages from elsewhere (not the PPM or official repos)
- I compile what I can
- I can find most things that I need on the forum

I worked with apt-get a fair bit, I prefer to manually add stuff,
or at least have total control over what gets added.

Bruce B · #22 Post by **Bruce B** » Mon 27 Jun 2011, 22:39

I'm curious what others think. I'll tell you what I think.

I think if I go around clicking on .pet files, it won't take long before something goes wrong.

What do any of you think about this?

~

RetroTechGuy · #23 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Tue 28 Jun 2011, 01:31

Bruce B wrote:I'm curious what others think. I'll tell you what I think.

I think if I go around clicking on .pet files, it won't take long before something goes wrong.

What do any of you think about this?

~

I have historically found the same. It often seemed to be and issue with version compatibility (since finding the correct version often works).

I typically make a backup of my pupsave/lupusave before installing new software.

nitehawk · #24 Post by **nitehawk** » Tue 28 Jun 2011, 02:01

Yes,...
I also discovered (the hard way!) that not all .pets will work with different versions. Then sometimes ya gotta get a little creative. Like going "outside" of Puppy's repository to find what you need, and stuff that will work on your Puppy version. Some stuff on the Slackware DVD (and the second CD of Vector Linux SOHO 6 edition) will work on Wary...for instance. (Not all of the apps,..just the Java,..Win32 codecs,...OpenOffice, xscreensavers, Opera,....etc. etc).

Lobster · #25 Post by **Lobster** » Tue 28 Jun 2011, 02:15

There is always something being done

http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02312

Basically Puppy does move fast and is often divergent.
We used to be in a situation where packages had to be compiled, optimised and tested every 6 weeks
Barryk did most of that himself

Puppy contains a full suite of usability but users demand more.

For example I want to test out the latest Chrome Browser
Just downloaded and installed the SFS for Lucid525

Here is more info on software
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Software

Puppy
Different.

Bruce B · #26 Post by **Bruce B** » Tue 28 Jun 2011, 07:41

Lobster wrote:Barryk did most of that himself :shock:

Amazing but true. Someday, I hope to accomplish in a month what he can do in a day.

~

SimpleWater · #27 Post by **SimpleWater** » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 08:27

I may have given the impression that i am of a newbie nature, well that may be, but really, searching for dependencies is a rather tedious task. And after the whole "new2dir make install", and before "dir2pet", i would have to manually find and remove every single file that was installed. (not fun)

As you can see, i'm probably not using the best methods, because the pet packaging 101 thread is horribly outdated and is not thorough. So, yes if you still want to make a decent tutorial sickgut. I encourage it.

Still, the ppm really needs a major makeover

sc0ttman · #28 Post by **sc0ttman** » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 08:42

SimpleWater wrote:And after the whole "new2dir make install", and before "dir2pet", i would have to manually find and remove every single file that was installed. (not fun)

Boot with pfix=ram if you must

And I have always found that as long as you know which versions of ubuntu, debian and/or slackware are compatible with your puppy, and you remember to bookmark a decent repo for that version, then you have easy access to loads of working packages and their libs. Easy.

For example, a standard Puppy 4.2 is compatible with Debian Lenny (Stable) - you can safely install nearly anything you like from there (apart from debian specific setup packages of course) and its deps, then it will almost certainly work OK

r1tz · #29 Post by **r1tz** » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 10:02

Simplewater wrote: @Sickgut, really good going on your progress. The whole universal repository system, is sounding very nice. Actually that sounds like the ultimate solution, so hopefully development is going well. Debian puppy also sounds intresting as well, although it probably won't have the support from the forum Rolling Eyes

Hmmm... I think, that if an extra 40mb can give full(or almost full) compatibility with debian, it might actually be a great idea.

sickgut · #30 Post by **sickgut** » Tue 05 Jul 2011, 13:41

hi people
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux
pussy linux is released. if you remove the pussyxtra.squshfs from the iso or .img then you are left with 67mb for the base live system and 140mb for the pussyos.squashfs
this is compareable to puppy +40mb or so. puppy version 5.0 was 160mb and didnt include a browser. There is still alot of fat that can be trimmed, and if some puppy devs where able get pussy and "pup it up" then you gotta wonder what it would be like to use pussys apt-get install system and have all of puppies nice things too, that would be the ultimate and a world class OS.

so far ive had basicly no one interested in pussy, altho i have hosted more than 100 downloads i dont think its getting the attention it deserves. Its not finnished and it is missing things, its missing the puppy custom stuff like pmount and some puppy specific apps and install scripts and people look at pussy and say its not a puppy. this is true, the whole point of releasing it in this form is so that some puppy devs might fit the cool puppy things in it and turn it into a puppy

now pussy is 100% compatible with debian, it isnt 99% or offers some partial compatibility. It is 100% able to apt-get any thing from debian repos and it will work 100% of the time. This is a 100% working solution to package management.

apt-get update
apt-get instalt whateverthehellyouwant

nitehawk · #31 Post by **nitehawk** » Tue 05 Jul 2011, 20:29

sc0ttman wrote: For example, a standard Puppy 4.2 is compatible with Debian Lenny (Stable) - you can safely install nearly anything you like from there (apart from debian specific setup packages of course) and its deps, then it will almost certainly work OK

..hey,..that's interesting! I have an old Puppy 4.2 cd around here somewhere,...and an old stack of the Lenny DVDs. What about Debian Squeeze,..(probably won't work with Squeeze) (?). Guess I'll find out.

RetroTechGuy · #32 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Wed 06 Jul 2011, 15:43

nitehawk wrote:
sc0ttman wrote: For example, a standard Puppy 4.2 is compatible with Debian Lenny (Stable) - you can safely install nearly anything you like from there (apart from debian specific setup packages of course) and its deps, then it will almost certainly work OK
..hey,..that's interesting! I have an old Puppy 4.2 cd around here somewhere,...and an old stack of the Lenny DVDs. What about Debian Squeeze,..(probably won't work with Squeeze) (?). Guess I'll find out.

I have installed a number of packages from Squeeze in both 4.3.1 and 5.20 -- note, backup your pupsave/lupusave before trying this. And use caution with large package (which are likely to have many missing dependencies).

dru5k1 · #33 Post by **dru5k1** » Wed 13 Jul 2011, 13:35

@SimpleWater: I hope you noticed the PPM has a big ConfigurePackageManager button that you can press to open up the 'whole' ubuntu lucid -main,universe,and multiverse- repositories???

@sickgut: I'm glad pussylinux is out, it sounds great and I'm sure to check it out!

Bruce B · #34 Post by **Bruce B** » Wed 20 Jul 2011, 16:46

Luluc wrote:
sickgut wrote:What Bruce said is true about the package manager, its handy as a tool to help you get to where your going but we arent tied into using it, and most experience users just grab the static install of the program they wanna use from the vendors site (skype from the skype site, assaultcube from the assultcube site etc...) install them, hunt around for a bit for a few deps, maybe remove some unneeded stuff to strip it a bit and thats it.
I've been around here for about a couple of months and gotten used to seeing several complaints being dismissed because "Puppy is supposed to be that way, limited but simple, in the name of newbie-friendliness." But now, all of a sudden, it is argued that "most Puppy users are savvy, will get by on their own and don't need no fancy-shmancy package manager."

Well, which is it? It is beginning to sound like the Puppy community will just say whatever suits their mood du jour about just leaving things the way they are.

It looks like good arguments to me.

I am not the community, rather an one user, just like anybody, except I have a lot of experience.

Around 2000 I decided to leave Windows and learn Linux. The keyword here is 'learn'.

People who don't take the time to learn are simply not going to be as capable administrators over their computers as those who learned.

Puppy is designed to be newbie friendly to be sure. Users want to add software not included with Puppy's ISO file. Puppy has a package manager as well as packages.

I don't use it and if have enhanced Puppy's software considerably without it, it can't be argued that it is needed.

In a lot of cases packages aren't needed either. A couple days ago I compiled and installed the latest version of Geany text editor and Bluefish HTML editor. No reason to package either.

If a person wants to get the best out of any operating system, he will need to learn the operating system. Learning is not as if one stops living or doesn't have a computer to work with while he learns. One learns on gradient. The more one learns, the easier things become.

~

sunburnt · #35 Post by **sunburnt** » Sun 24 Jul 2011, 03:55

I didn`t read this whole thread, but I have said the same long ago.
I also suggested a simple fix that`s very advanced and has many benefits.

Make Squash files the new file package format, no installing or removal needed !!!
So there`s no tracking of files ( no mess ), and no space taken in the Save file.

You mount the file ( NOT Unioned ) and use it just that way.

This is the idea I suggested for ChoicePup, and it worked very well.

harii4 · #36 Post by **harii4** » Sun 24 Jul 2011, 20:20

As an puppy 3 series user I always thought:
Gslapt‎
the PSI: Puppy Software Installer 07
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10960

where an great add-on .
Puppy's DotPup package installer vs. Add'l Software forum
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 2e7fad4d33

SimpleWater · #37 Post by **SimpleWater** » Thu 04 Aug 2011, 18:13

dru5k1 wrote:@SimpleWater: I hope you noticed the PPM has a big ConfigurePackageManager button that you can press to open up the 'whole' ubuntu lucid -main,universe,and multiverse- repositories???

@sickgut: I'm glad pussylinux is out, it sounds great and I'm sure to check it out!

Yeah, you know weird things happen when i install ubuntu packages. Some work, some crash X

Bruce B wrote:In a lot of cases packages aren't needed either. A couple days ago I compiled and installed the latest version of Geany text editor and Bluefish HTML editor. No reason to package either.

The thing is, not all the programs out there come with a uninstall script. So making pet allows you to uninstall from ppm most of the files, or sometimes none.

Ether · #38 Post by **Ether** » Wed 23 Apr 2014, 17:19

..
I've used various Puppy versions "as-is" for the past 5 years, mostly for rescue. Most have worked flawlessly. Amazing.

Now I'm at the point where I'd like to leave Windows behind and start using Linux full time.

To do this I would need to install software apps.

I made made an appeal for help here, but after doing a lot more reading I've very reluctantly come to the conclusion that if I want hassle-free installation of software apps I am going to have to "graduate" from Puppy to a mainstream full Linux installation.

I'll bet this is what happens to a lot of new users.

anikin · #39 Post by **anikin** » Wed 23 Apr 2014, 18:52

Ether wrote:if I want hassle-free installation of software apps I am going to have to "graduate" from Puppy to a mainstream full Linux installation.

I'll bet this is what happens to a lot of new users

No need to "graduate".
Puppy itself has graduated/matured, so that, we don't have to:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225

Ether · #40 Post by **Ether** » Wed 23 Apr 2014, 19:17

anikin wrote:
Ether wrote:if I want hassle-free installation of software apps I am going to have to "graduate" from Puppy to a mainstream full Linux installation.

I'll bet this is what happens to a lot of new users
No need to "graduate".
Puppy itself has graduated/matured, so that, we don't have to:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225

I read somewhere this morning on this forum (can't find it right now - should have bookmarked a link) that Debian has the largest repo but the package manager isn't as good at handling dependencies as Ubuntu. Is that false? I need hassle-free software installation; I don't mind learning Linux as I go, but I need to be learning on a system that has the apps I need to get my work done. Does this new distro have a package manager that works "out of the box" ? Eventually I hope to learn all about dependencies and configuring and even building from source, but for now I need hassle-free noob automated installation so I can get up and running on a Linux system.

Thanks.

.

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