War on Iran?

[PaulBx1]

Or will a resulting increase in living standards buy off their natural inclinations for national/cultural/religious self respect.

If the American peons don't get an increase in living standards, certainly the peons in our colonies won't.

that bit about abomination and transvestites in BOLD type

They had transvestites in the Bible? Wow, those ancient Israelites were more advanced than I realized.

Speaking of biblical stuff, I notice people having a little fun at the guy who tied for first place in the presidential sweepstakes in Iowa, Rick Santorum. As he is a Catholic with some pretty strange views, a Monty Python sketch was pulled up (MP is always there when you need them):
Every Sperm is Sacred
Of course Santorum, like all the rest except Ron Paul, wants to bomb Iran too.

At most it would be a massive bombing of Iran with conventional bombs mainly.

Aren't you glad that we have a President with a Nobel Peace Prize? No doubt that fact alone will reduce the numbers of women and children who are blown to bits.

[aarf]

Speaking of biblical stuff, I notice people having a little fun at the guy who tied for first place in the presidential sweepstakes in Iowa, Rick Santorum. As he is a Catholic with some pretty strange views,..
Of course Santorum, like all the rest except Ron Paul, wants to bomb Iran too.

At most it would be a massive bombing of Iran with conventional bombs mainly.

Aren't you glad that we have a President with a Nobel Peace Prize? No doubt that fact alone will reduce the numbers of women and children who are blown to bits.

What do you see as the main cultural influences that produces this nation of rabid barbaric pathological serial murders?

[TheProphet]

Hello,
"Whoa, didnt see that coming" (heavy sarcasm alert)..
In order to have a "Military Industrial Complex" you kinda need an enemy...
The "War for oil" BS doesnt work..
Remember, the Middle East supplies 11% of our oil.. 11%.. Half as much as Canada, and 1/3 of what we allow ourselves to produce domestically...
They gotta come up with something....

But a much larger percentage of the oil supply to the growing Chinese and Indian markets.
There's also a shrinking amount of oil under Our Own sands that can be extracted without mucking our water supply for all eternity, or at least as long as humans exist. Which doesn't seem to be too much longer.

Les Freres Bush, the smarter ones Jeb and Neil, joined a whole bunch of other "conservatives" who conserve nothing called the Project for the New American Century in which they mapped out what they hoped would be a tight Wall Street grip on the entire economy of the world. They swore in advance to lie to us, and that we or at least a significant percentage of "we" would believe them just enough to give them the political go-ahead.

Of course they didn't reckon in that people in other countries don't exactly welcome our intervention, figured Iraq would be a cakewalk, were blindsided by Afghanistan and of course the NASDAQ bubble, Enron, and Adjustable Rate Mortgages. They can't quite get the hang of mathematics.

Also that they would keep the war going for about two generations, and suspend civil rights and liberties "for the duration" like in World War Two. Only, the duration they counted on was like 50-60 years, thus guaranteeing that two generations of Americans would grow up with not even a pretense of constitutional law.

And they published it, constantly, in advance of making their moves. They have that little respect for the intelligence of American people.

It's greed. Pure and simple. They even make money when they lose any individual war. Like Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush, who played every side in World War 2, even selling guns to and laundering money for the Axis, even after the German navy sank an American freighter, the Reuben James, in American territorial waters.

They're deep into the mortgage crisis, selling the interest on debt they'll never collect as though it were real money.

Using the word "madness" doesn't begin to describe it.

Like our Deuschlander friend said in the second post, they worship mammon.

I've heard from the part of American Christianity who cheerlead all these operations, they said that the WTC was a temple of American Christianity. And that 9/11 was an attack on Christ.

A glorified marketplace becoming the temple. Jesus drove the moneychangers, who were priests actually, from the Temple and said they had made His Father's house into a marketplace.

Now they've done the exact opposite and just made the Market into the New Temple.
On Wall Street when the brokers and bankers go to work every morning they pass by a statue of a bull, "Golden Calf", anyone?

The design for the WTC replacement "freedom tower" looks a lot like a hand with a middle finger stretched upward to Heaven.

Hear that, on the horizon? Sounds like hoofbeats...

It's the horsemen.

[TheProphet]

Or will a resulting increase in living standards buy off their natural inclinations for national/cultural/religious self respect.

If the American peons don't get an increase in living standards, certainly the peons in our colonies won't.

that bit about abomination and transvestites in BOLD type

They had transvestites in the Bible? Wow, those ancient Israelites were more advanced than I realized.

Speaking of biblical stuff, I notice people having a little fun at the guy who tied for first place in the presidential sweepstakes in Iowa, Rick Santorum. As he is a Catholic with some pretty strange views, a Monty Python sketch was pulled up (MP is always there when you need them):
Every Sperm is Sacred
Of course Santorum, like all the rest except Ron Paul, wants to bomb Iran too.

At most it would be a massive bombing of Iran with conventional bombs mainly.

Aren't you glad that we have a President with a Nobel Peace Prize? No doubt that fact alone will reduce the numbers of women and children who are blown to bits.

Apparently enough transvestites that Leviticus prohibits it.

Ron Paul isn't exactly worker-class friendly either, he was my representative in Texas.

Only he represented the Rich more than the poor even though there's a lot fewer rich than there are of us. Sure, deregulation and low wages make for more jobs.

More jobs where you have no safety and no way to pay for personal insurance because your wages are too low.

Mr Paul got me on that one. I've got a permanently maimed set of feet and legs and I'm one of the lucky ones, in Texas thanks in large part to the deregulation and "right to work" laws and Tort "reform" to lock us out of the court system... 5 construction workers die each week in accidents and there's no real number available for those injured.

Because, you see, if you're hurt on the job, as I was, you're simply abandoned.

Ron Paul and the rest of the tribe take us out to the ice floe and row away singing traditional tribal songs about abandoning the old, sick, injured and poor to be eaten by the polar bears.

It takes a lot of police state violence to keep people subjugated enough to stand for that kind of crap, though, so I really don't see where his reputation for being anti-violence comes in.

[starhawk]

Who the @#$* died and made my country (USA) police of the world?

I wish that whoever it was would come back and put us in our place. I don't see morals around here too much anymore, just people (sheeple?) who want to let the walking talking-points do the thinking for them.

Case in point: meanest jack*** I've ever met lives across the street from me. I've never seen him take down the American flag in his yard, and I'd bet money that he's a Republican. I hate to say this (really!) but neoconservatism ain't where it's at.

What a tangled web we weave...

[TheProphet]

By the way, this page of the discussion started out with a post advertising porn.

Or something like that, a whole case of economy sized cans of Spam.
Don't know if the moderators took care of that yet.

[TheProphet]

By the way, this page of the discussion started out with a post advertising porn.

Or something like that, a whole case of economy sized cans of Spam.
Don't know if the moderators took care of that yet.

Middle of the page, somebody with a name of julin.

[TheProphet]

Na, Syria doesn't mean a thing to the US, no oil, no threatening nukes, no 'favorable' citizens to protect, etc. North Korea would surely be ahead of Syria in the list.

Location, though. Afghanistan has location too, borders on India, Pakistan, Iran and China.

The mantra on local news (in Colorado Springs) is: "The Iranians have nukes and missiles that can take out U.S. troops in the region" but don't mention that it's not the people of the region who are holding American troops there.

They don't much like offending the Military Industrial Complex here because there's something like 18 military bases within an hours drive of here, and a huge number of War Industry facilities.


So the local media like to scrape and bow to where their money is coming from. Greed, again.

[TheProphet]

Also, North Korea and China, the ones who are to be "contained" economically by the war policies, (did I mention PNAC actually PUBLISHED their plans in advance?) once took on the entire rest of the world and stood us down, the only victory the Rest Of The World got was a cease-fire agreement. Also Israel borders Syria.

Seems a lot of Christian and Jewish individuals are "supporting" Israel but with an eye toward Israel pretty much being wiped out in the first round of World War Last.

Trying to force God's hand in the Apocalypse.

I really believe they don't know what they're doing.

[aarf]

Oh goodie. More bed time stories http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Hor ... Apocalypse
Still prefer the the one about goldie locks and the bears though. Also at the same link 'three little pigs' aint bad either.

[darkcity]

Les Freres Bush, the smarter ones Jeb and Neil, joined a whole bunch of other "conservatives" who conserve nothing called the Project for the New American Century in which they mapped out what they hoped would be a tight Wall Street grip on the entire economy of the world. They swore in advance to lie to us, and that we or at least a significant percentage of "we" would believe them just enough to give them the political go-ahead.

what about the Wall St money and Oil money rivalries?

they use the nukes this time. bub bub

[PaulBx1]

What do you see as the main cultural influences that produces this nation of rabid barbaric pathological serial murders?

I think every society has its sociopaths, maybe a couple percent. The only real question is whether the political structures that are present facilitate these getting into power, and whether or not a given nation has the world's reserve currency. In the US we have both factors operating, unfortunately. End result, a lot of innocent dead people.

As to cultural differences, I don't see them playing into this so much. Almost every culture is capable of evil. Maybe Buddhists and Quakers are a little better than most.

figured Iraq would be a cakewalk

One always wonders if this is mere propaganda for the peons, or if the ruling class really is that arrogant and ignorant. I go back and forth on this.

Ron Paul isn't exactly worker-class friendly... Because, you see, if you're hurt on the job, as I was, you're simply abandoned.

I think Ron Paul is a decent individual, one of the few such in politics. As to being taken care of, you really need to get over the propaganda and take care of yourself and your own family. Nobody in government gives a damn about you, other than as a source of funds. You and I are host organisms for the parasites. It only seems a betrayal if you believe the BS in the first place. Stop believing. Unless you prefer the feeling of constantly being betrayed. Personally, I don't, as it is kind of disabling.

It takes a lot of police state violence to keep people subjugated enough to stand for that kind of crap, though, so I really don't see where his reputation for being anti-violence comes in.

Well, you seem confused about violence. You think violence (that is, aggression) in your service is OK. It makes for a pretty ugly society when everyone thinks so. Aggressive (as opposed to defensive) violence is never OK, under any circumstances.

[TheProphet]

Civility in civil governance would be nice but it's apparently looked upon as being "weak".

As to the rivalry between the Energy and Financial sectors, since the wealth is concentrated into so few hands the greater probability is that the same small group controls both.

Bush and Cheney, for instance, are heavily vested in both sectors. And their families or at least the more closely related ones. I found out that I'm actually shirt-tail kin of Cheney. (My Great-great grandma remarried into the Cheneys) so they do have family on The Other Side of the tracks.

My favorite comparison to the scene as of now is Rome as of 200 A.D. when they really started to realize that an economy based on pillage was bound to fail.

In order to maintain pillage you'd have to spend more money managing the lands you're spoiling than you get back. Operating deeply in the red. The only method they had for that problem was to expand pillage. And quickly, by historical standards, hitting the upward limit of how many nations they could remote-control from Rome. All the ones from which the plunder could be easily shipped were already conquered and most of them in a state of rebellion against the Empire.

The term Gunboat Diplomacy was coined by the British Empire and specifically for China.

Which is THE big target for "our" economic aggression. Aside from the threat of total annihilation, we don't have a big enough gunboat to use in our "negotiations".

They're actually pushing a Lunar exploration project. Seems there's enough evidence of enough water on the moon to support a minerals extraction industry, which was our and the Soviet "official" reason for the space race. It's really low energy to take off from the Lunar surface and drop into Earth orbit. Which brings out The Dark Side of The Moon and my apologies to Pink Floyd.

Dropping payloads of platinum and whatever else can be gotten from the moon into orbit and a splashdown could just as easily be dropping nukes.

One thing the space race demonstrated was that you can actually launch something from the surface of the moon and put it down on any spot on Earth within a couple meters of where you want it.

And if you have a missile base on the moon you wouldn't be troubled by nuns and priests simply walking on and beating on the silos with sledgehammers. It would be a quarter of a million miles away from anywhere on Earth.

The aggressive types had this worked out back in the 1960s, I remember from posters on the walls of one of the mess-halls at White Sands Missile Range. They were accusing the Soviets of having such designs and of course Our Shining City on the Hill would never consider doing anything like that.

And now China, the stated target of all this economic and political aggression, has announced just such a project. The mineral extraction, of course, and not the military part.

Since the War is allegedly against Terror and the self-proclaimed Sole Superpower, which has more of all three classes of WMDs than the rest of the world combined, keeps selling the blatant wars of conquest by the use of Fear.

And the ones we're supposed to fear the most suddenly showing that they can resist the Empire is probably going to be the next Fear to be exploited.

[aarf]

In a world freed from the tyrants of economics and cost, basing harmful activities on the moon makes good sense. The robotic future is neigh. That is until the greenies setup base there too. Talking of concentrations of wealth, seems more and more of this commodity is being concentrated away from the workers producers and into the political sphere all without a whimper.. Read as IMF, world bank, central banks, soverign funds. How much damage can be done in the time it takes a missile to travel from the moon?.

[PaulBx1]

For the Americans on this list (everybody else already knows it):

Iran is not our enemy

I just can't believe we're going down the road to war AGAIN!

[sunburnt]

The main purpose of all governments seems to be to lie to it`s people.
And lie they do, about everything! Anything is done to mislead everyone...

The people of the middle east are fed up with their "ruling classes" ( gov. ).
Apparently "advanced" nations are not as smart... We`re still tolerating them.

[jpeps]

The main purpose of all governments seems to be to lie to it`s people.
And lie they do, about everything! Anything is done to mislead everyone...

whew... that makes me feel better. Looking at election debates, it almost appears that candidates believe a good part of what they're saying..which is always hard to believe.

[Karl Godt]

Hello,
@ As I said above, Oil is never the real reason...
Syria does have something to offer...
Remember the old real-estate adage:
"Location, location, and location.."

Just remembered that writing .. and somehow stumbled upon SHERYL CROW at youtube :
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/sherylcrow/gasoline.html

Sheryl Crow - "Gasoline / Gimme Shelter" (Live, 2008)

And I have certainly problems to call her Anti-American :

Rock And Roll

..let the good times roll !

[ I also like these :
All~Girl Tribute to AC/DC is a MUST SEE experience!l
that
WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!
ThundHerStruck LIVE From Camp Stryker Iraq
but there are several other videos found at youtube
Thundherstruck at Moondance
ThundHerStruck "T.N.T."
more civilian
]

[Aitch]

A better understanding of Iran might save us from catastrophe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... sfeed=true

Is it just me?

Isn't Netanyahu more dangerous than Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
Iran has 5 nuclear powered neighbours and is the least powerful in the region, ....but they do keep nationalising American oil interests, or overthrowing US imposed puppet leaders....

It is Netanyahu who's threatening Obama after all, and has Canada's Steve Harper as a friend to help lean on Obama in his push for war

The consequences for Israeli people are unthinkable to me

I'm not a fan of Israel's global powermongering, nor their role in infiltrating congress....but there has to be a better way

This is no more than oil baronry gone mad, IMHO, ....and to say oil is never the real reason, is to misunderstand/downplay the the power game as played by those who are 'in control'

As Paul says, we are just propaganda fodder to them, and you can no longer protest

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76657

So who's the dangerous dictator here?....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... 0mgDtz7--I

Aitch

[sunburnt]

Who`s the most dangerous? All of them! That`s who...

Prophesies tend to point to Iran being a source of real trouble.