Is it feasible to make a Puppy computer run entirely in RAM?

[JohnReedlol]

I'm new here and I've never run puppy, but I heard that puppy can load from a detachable USB onto ram and then run programs in RAM. Is it possible for a computer with no hard drive and no network connections to load Puppy from a USB onto RAM? After that, can the USB be removed so that the computer can run without access to any form of non-volatile memory?

Ideally, the only operating system on the computer would be Puppy. After it's been created, I'd like the no-hard-drive computer running on Puppy to be able to connect to the internet and download files and programs to RAM and then run them from RAM.

Is that sort of a computer possible and relatively simple to create?

[ally]

hey john

this can certainly be done using a cdrom, puppy has been designed this way, after booting from cd, it can be removed from the drive if needed

[dancytron]

If I understand what you are asking, that's how it runs by default when you boot from a CD or DVD for the first time.

To get it to do that from usb, you'd just need to set the boot parameter pfix=ram.

[Flash]

Yes, Puppy runs entirely in RAM when you boot the CD or DVD the first time, and also every time thereafter if you save to the CD or DVD (which makes it into a multisession Puppy). I've been running Puppy from multisession DVDs for at least 6 years, in a computer without a hard disk drive.

[Ted Dog]

Yes, fastest way to run a computer, I've got so use to the fast startup of software like firefox browser, the first few times back using windows I think something is wrong...

[Sylvander]

When running a Frugal install...
[Optical disk (or Flash Drive install) plus pupsave in use]...
I seem to remember there's a command...
That can be placed in some file?
To tell the Puppy to load EVERYTHING [including the contents of the pupsave]...
Into RAM.

Anyone know how?

[partsman]

hello all
I think the best way to do this would be to boot puppy from usb/cd
and either multi-session dvd or save to usb stick and use pupsave config pet ! This way the user could control the save and save file would be in use but any new aplications or whatever would run in ram the user could then at shutdown decide to save it to the save file or not !

[sunburnt]

Linux loads the kernel into ram of course.
Puppy can load it`s main SFS boot file into ram also.

But the Save file is always on a partition
Puppy has been hacked to to load it into ram also.
This only speeds up PET apps. that are installed into the Save file.
SFS add-on files are not in ram, but they could be loaded there too.
.

[tallboy]

Puppy can load it`s main SFS boot file into ram also.

Sorry, sunburnt, but that is an incorrect statement. I ONLY run from a live CD/DVD, and when my puppy starts, all relevant files from the multisession disc are loaded into RAM.

See the image below for the content on my multisession CD when it is mounted. All those files are read and loaded into RAM at bootup, and if I need the disc reader/writer after booting, let's say to play some music, I just remove the puppy disc, and still have accsess to all programs running (fast) from RAM. But they are not visible as separate SFS, dirs and files in RAM.

With a multisession CD-R, or better - a DVD-R, you can save to the disc at shutdown if you want to. After the first 'save' at shutdown, which ensures that the disc is kept 'open' for new sessions, you can later save at any time - not only at shutdown. See the dated folders in the picture, they are all saves.

JohnReedlol, as others have said here, what you describe is the normal way to run a puppy at first run, as a live CD/DVD. Puppy was designed that way, to avoid any risk of messing up an already existing OS on a hd. Any references to savefiles and frugal installs, demand using a hd or USB storage. The simple way is a multisession CD/DVD. You have to use the puppy's Menu -> Multimedia -> Burniso2CD program to burn a puppy .iso to a new CD/DVD as multisession, then you can save numerous times (sessions) to that disc, no need for any hd.
All the saved sessions are accessible when the disc is mounted, so you can actuallly read several versions of a document that is saved to your multisession CD/DVD, old files are not written over if you use an ordinary, cheap CD-R or DVD-R disc. You may also save stuff for keeps, which is not read at bootup - but still available, by putting it into a directory named /archive.
You can of course use a USB stick as well, but with a disc you usually don't risk to loose anything.

I recommend you check out the section devoted to multisession here in the forum: Multi-session live-CD/DVD

I also recommend that you follow the link to puppylinux.com at the top of this forum page. There you'll find a tech section that describes how to (and how not to) install a puppy.

Please give us some feedback on your success in running without a hd!

tallboy

[Bruce B]

Puppy can load it`s main SFS boot
file into ram also.

Sorry, sunburnt, but that is an incorrect statement. I ONLY run from a live CD/DVD, and when my puppy starts, all relevant files from the
multisession disc are loaded into RAM.

If you can remove the Live CD/DVD during the session AND the machine
still runs properly, which is often the case, I suggest the main SFS is in
RAM by virtue of a copy operation which occured during bootup.

Otherwise?

[Karl Godt]

It seems that the idea is to have a Puppy.iso inside RAM and boot it from there . Probably possible if the RAM never looses currency power .

[DrDeaf]

I'm new here and I've never run puppy, but I heard that puppy can load from a detachable USB onto ram and then run programs in RAM. Is it possible for a computer with no hard drive and no network connections to load Puppy from a USB onto RAM? After that, can the USB be removed so that the computer can run without access to any form of non-volatile memory?

Ideally, the only operating system on the computer would be Puppy. After it's been created, I'd like the no-hard-drive computer running on Puppy to be able to connect to the internet and download files and programs to RAM and then run them from RAM.

Is that sort of a computer possible and relatively simple to create?

Hi there....
Is this possible? Yes.
Relatively simple? Yes, once you get enough info to make your decisions.
There is a thread which will provide you with the info you need here
You have several ways to go.... read the thread fully and you should be good to go. What I do is included in the thread. If you don't want to multi-boot, just feed it one ISO! Easy....
Questions? No problem!
Cheers!

[sunburnt]

It seems that the idea is to have a Puppy.iso inside RAM and boot it from there.

Possible if grub2 or grub4dos will mount the iso file, and I think it will.

tallboy; It is absolutely correct. That`s what Load-To-Ram means!
The kernel and initrd.gz are always extracted to ram in every distro.
The main SFS file`s all that`s left at first bootup, then the Save file`s made.
The only thing not loadable to ram is the Save file.
To do this would mean a timed copy down, like USB Puppy does.

I believe Pizzasgood hacked Puppy many years ago to load the Save file.
.

[DrDeaf]

Possible if grub2 or grub4dos will mount the iso file, and I think it will.

Hi, In my experiences with the Puppy I use, Grub4Dos works well, although I have moved on... Expand the iso file onto a bootable USB device then run Grub4Dos. However, if multiboot is wanted, a separate partition on the USB device is needed for each Puppy choice.
I do not think that Grub4Dos permits booting from a bare ISO simply copied to a USB device.

All Puppies do not behave identically. I noted that the OP did not know what Puppy he would want to use. So, there would be an advantage to him in setting his USB up to boot from any ISO found on the device. Much easier to check them all out with his specific hardware (also not known)
Hope this helps!

[rcrsn51]

I do not think that Grub4Dos permits booting from a bare ISO simply copied to a USB device.

ISObooter.

[DrDeaf]

ISObooter.

A good choice.
And I hope the OP doesn't make the same error I did and fail to scroll down through the thread and find the correct section for ISObooter!

[tallboy]

I'm sorry if I hurt some feelings by using harsh language now, but come on guys; Don't you know the fundamentals of puppylinux?? Please read the quote from Barry Kauler below.

Sunburnt, you talk about a savefile; there is no savefile when running live! A savefile is kept on the harddisk or on a USB stick, and is a choise you are given when shutting down a live CD/DVD. A live disc loads everything into RAM and runs from RAM. That is the main feature that separates puppy from other distributions! If the disc is burnt as a multisession disc, you can even save the modifications you make during a session, back to the live disc, as shown in the picture of my live CD. Read Barry Kauler's description of the process below. You don't have to use a R/W disc, a cheap CD-R or DVD-R will be written to several times, a DVD maybe 1000-1200 times.

If you can remove the Live CD/DVD during the session AND the machine
still runs properly, which is often the case,...

often???? It is always the case, puppy was made to do just that! I have done that for many years.

I suggest the main SFS is in RAM by virtue of a copy operation which occured during bootup.

Absolutely correct!

It seems that the idea is to have a Puppy.iso inside RAM and boot it from there. Probably possible if the RAM never looses currency power.

All the files (except /archive) on my live CD/DVD is loaded to RAM when I start my PC, and YES, they disappear from RAM if the power is cut off. That is very useful when you test a program, and have a system crash, or you are finished without having to save any files. Just turn off the PC, and then turn it on next time to have a fresh puppy loaded from the live CD/DVD! But, yes, you may loose a file in work if power is cut, it has never happened me, though.

Some of the file/dir names below are for older puppys, and there have been other modifications, but the principles are still the same. The text below can be found in http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

The ramdisk
When the live-CD boots, vmlinuz, the Linux kernel, loads into RAM, followed by image.gz, which loads into a "ramdisk" (a filesystem that is totally in RAM). The ".gz" means that the file is compressed, so it is uncompressed into the ramdisk and then becomes the basic Puppy filesystem, that is, the "/" or top directory and all the subdirectories /bin, /sbin, /lib, /dev, /tmp, etc.

A fundamental objective of Puppy is that everything should load into ramdisk, thus freeing up the CD drive so that you can use the CD drive for any other purpose. Also, if everything is in RAM, application startup and running speed is stunning.

12. Simplified, more reliable multisession CD/DVD
Puppy 1.0.x has a complex multisession management mechanism. It also has reliability problems.

Puppy2 leverages off the unionfs layer management mechanism. Basically, the top layer (pup_rw), is a tmpfs filesystem in ramdisk, containing all the new and changed directories and files. At shutdown, the top layer is saved to a new folder on the CD/DVD -- that's it, session saved.
At bootup, the saved folders are read off the DVD in reverse order (latest first), writing the latest of each file to the second layer (pup_ro1). Thus, all the previous personal data is loaded into the second layer. The top layer once again will become the next saved folder. (these "layers" are explained below)
Note, unionfs has a mechanism for handling deleted directories and files, and Puppy's multisession management utilises this. A file named, say, /bin/testfile in the second layer, is deleted at the top layer by creation of /bin/.wh.testfile. At shutdown, this "deletion marker" file is saved to a the latest session folder on the DVD. At bootup, Puppy reads the folders in reverse order and is able to determine what directories and files in lower folders have been deleted and hence must not be loaded back to the second layer, pup_ro1.

13. One iso for normal and multisession
There is only the one iso file that is burnt to CD or DVD. At first bootup, Puppy runs totally in RAM. The difference comes at shutdown. Assuming that the user has burnt the iso file to CD/DVD as "open" or multisession, at shutdown the user can choose to either save the session in the normal way as a pup_save.3fs file in a partition of choice, or there is the option of saving the session back to the CD/DVD.
At the second bootup, Puppy will recognise that a session has been saved on the CD/DVD media and from then on will behave as a multisession CD/DVD.

(If Barry reads this: Is there hope for an upgrade of 'How Puppy Works'?)

tallboy

[tallboy]

A note to emphasize how live discs behave: My live CD is 532Mb. I have added some applications, and removed others, but only the latest versions of the files are loaded into RAM.
The freememapplet in the tray says: 808M personal storage, free space = 747M.

tallboy

[rcrsn51]

If you can remove the Live CD/DVD during the session AND the machine still runs properly, which is often the case,...

often???? It is always the case, puppy was made to do just that! I have done that for many years.

What happens if the machine doesn't have enough memory to fully load Puppy into RAM? I thought that the disc was left mounted and had to be kept inserted.

[tallboy]

I don't know what happens if you run from a CD, I am not sure if the available RAM space is tested in the beginning of the boot process. My guess is that the load process just stop with a warning. I prefer to remaster a live CD to my liking, to keep it as small as possible.

If you read the start of 'How Puppy Works', it seems that running of a USB stick is probably the best on a PC with very little RAM. Then only the basic parts of the puppy will be loaded to RAM, but the rest of the files will reside on the stick which is mounted read-only, until you save at shutoff. I know too little about this to describe it in detail, the disc is my preferred media.

Barry K. really did some serious thinking before making this work, we're lucky to have several ingenious solutions at hand!

tallboy