Puppy on Tablets

[rokytnji]

Roky, out of curiosity I searched for links for installing Linux on the C710, and the few I found didn't look accurate -- they talked about GRUB -- is Grub actually available on the C710?

Because I'm looking at buying a C720 to test, I also looked up instructions for installing Linux on that model. These instructions seemed much more specific and accurate (for that model):
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/76 ... chromebook

The Bohdi developer has left. Another has stepped up to try and take up the slack but from what I read. Just a lot of atta boy posts. Non saying "hey man, i'll lend a hand".

But that was some time ago. Maybe things changed. I have not checked.

I will not dance with Ubuntu Unity on any of my gear. Icewm, Fluxbox, or XFCE is my preferred dance partners. JWM is like dancing with my sister. Not as much fun for me.
But I'll do it. Edit: I know I can install another Window manager and log into it.
But I am a minimalist at heart on certain things.

Touchpad support is a sticking point with Chromebooks and the Kernel 3.17 is just starting to get a handle on it. I do not want to run a finger mouse on my chromebook.
Just the way it is. I am patient and not in a hurry yet since I have other resources.

As far as having grub on a Chromebook. I sure as hell have not seen one on mine.

Edit again: Curiosity bit me since I posted. I am downloading the Fatdog iso first.
Then I'll try developer mode to boot off usb. I'll dd on my linux laptop. At least I am comfy there. I am nervous because last time my bios screwed up and it took some work to unbrick it last time I tried to go into developer mode. Here is hoping my unbrick bios steps worked OK and that all bios functions will work.

I don't know know if you ever dealt with a corrupted bios. It can be scary.
We will see this weekend. If it works out. Maybe you will see me post in the fatdog thread.

3rd Edit: Like I thought. My bios lets me go so far before it quits cooperating. I enabled legacy usb boot in crosh as root. But ctrl+l
would not give me the legacy boot screen on reboot, in developer mode. So I could hit the ESC key and pick USB. Maybe because this is a refurbished unit from Acer that I got for 90 bucks plus shipping.

So no fatdog for me.

[Ted Dog]

would that be kirk and his.version of fatdog?

[rokytnji]

would that be kirk and his.version of fatdog?

Yeah. That one.

[peterw]

Hi

Just following up and commenting on Chromebooks and Puppy and other distributions.

Some of the more recent Chromebooks have Intel processors and with them you can use Puppies. Mine is the Acer C720. After making a backup of the Chrome OS, I have carried out the process to get it into developer mode. It has the sea bios which appears to detect bootable media so that after Ctrl + l and esc you get a list of the bootable media - hard drive/sdd and usb if you have one plugged in. Selecting 1, 2, 3, etc selects one. This bit is faultless for me.

Puppies are not very demanding on ram and do not normally need the addition of mem=1950m in the kernel line to get the machine to boot. I use Grub4dos as the boot loader on my machines.

When playing about installing more heavyweight OS's I have found it often necessary to use Unetbootin to get the usb prepared so that I can add the mem=1950m in the boot process. Using the dd method does not always work and does not give an easy way of getting the mem=1950m instruction.

I have tried the fatdog designed for the C720 and that works well. I was very impressed with Bodhi. I have successfully tried various OS's and they all seem to work but unless they have the touch pad additions like Bodhi and the special Fatdog then you need a usb external mouse.

I have heard that the touch pad changes are in the 3.17 kernel but it was not in 3.17.1 When I tried the Fedora Beta 4 it had an slightly updated kernel and the touch pad was responding. Mageia seems to have 3.17.2 and I will give that a go. I am waiting for a Puppy with the latest kernel.

Regards

[vtpup]

I'm now experimenting with using the tablet (under Android) to control another computer running various OS's via VNC. A particular interest has been to control a headless linux board running a CNC milling machine. And really ideal would be if that board was running LinuxCNC under Puppy linux of some sort. I've detailed where I am with this in the Cutting Edge/Engineering forum here. Not quite running a CNC Puppy yet, but the tablet does seem able to control the LinuxCNC program on another computer running a modified puppy-like Debian or Ubuntu install.

The biggest obstacle so far to Puppy CNC is in getting a Puppy running an RTAI real time linux kernel, which in turn can run LinuxCNC.

Anyway, though I'd update the "Puppy on Tablets thread here -- close, but not quite there yet in running Puppy on an x86 tablet, or controlling a Puppy CNC application.

[amigo]

CNC under Puppy? Better have that machine in a deep bunker somewhere. Use something much lighter and dedicated to only that. Just getting Puppy to run headless will boggle you for a couple of years...

[wboz]

Just checked up on the documentation for Chromebooks, below.

I'm mostly familiar with the Acer models because I have a C710. Excellent computer BTW, very simple device and many swappable components. Terrible screen though. That model can boot from USB from within developer mode. I don't know what will HAPPEN when you boot a puppy USB, possibly not much ... I'd really love to know if you try it.

The C720 will do the same but also has a new feature called Legacy BIOS. The documentation on this site is sparse but I BELIEVE the inclusion of SeaBIOS means that you can get around the stock Chromebook BIOS which only supports ChromeOS and has no idea what other OS are saying to it. I don't actually have any idea why ChromeOS requires a non-standard BIOS ... I also think that on earlier chromebooks it was POSSIBLE to entirely reflash the BIOS to seabios, but that had some hazards obviously and is probably why they included a secondary bios! The site also notes you can break SeaBIOS and provides instructions to repair it.

Wasn't sure what sort of Chromebook you have but there are links for many of them. If it's Intel chip you ought to be able to have some success if you persist (and are careful). But honestly, I bought a Chromebook with the specific desire to have a "backup" OS (Ubuntu or Lubuntu ... the latter a suggestion if you hate Unity of course!) if I didn't like Chrome, but after a few weeks I realized nothing was going to run faster than the stock OS and I never tried anything else ...

Still cannot figure out how to post a real link ... sorry!
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dev ... egacy-Boot

[wboz]

Another thought I have is that we'd probably increase the chance of success running Puppy on a Windows tablet. I must admit I have no idea if cheap tablets have a user-enterable BIOS that allows you to select a USB for boot.

Obviously I am no expert. But I like to minimize difficulties. That's all.

Here is the best thing I was able to find in 15 minutes of searching. At least I was able to determine that yes, there is a BIOS and yes you can boot from it. http://forums.toshiba.com/t5/Encore-Tab ... d-p/579484 So I learned something.

Seems like many of the tablet-specific hardware and software needs (touchscreen, keyboard, gestures) are not yet part of any puppy. I know there are some distros starting to roll out touch support; Ubuntu obviously but also KDE and Gnome. So that implies to me that ... at some point not toooo far in the future ... a talented developer can appropriate those bits for a Pup

That said, I feel like a lot of Linux UI is frankly not well set up for touch interactions. Sure a browser window is fine, but the rest of it not so much. Part of what I love about Puppy is it's able to be very compact and fast. If any Touch UI available would be 500MB RAM to run, then already it's eating into the appeal of Puppy for me. I'm going to do some more research to see what's going on in this space ... I really have limited interest in tablets (had one, nice, just not for me) but I'm still curious now

[edoc]

Another thought I have is that we'd probably increase the chance of success running Puppy on a Windows tablet.

Here's the problem - monopolistic-Microsoft rearing it's ugly head again.

Because the $B MS corporation is incapable of releasing a non bug-ridden security-porous OS they demanded that hardware manufacturers install UEFI in the BIOS and to provide no way to bypass it - security was their excuse - excluding Linux from the hardware was their probable goal (or at least one cause of cackling in corporate headquarters).

As of now there is no modern tablet that can be booted to Linux due to this predatory monopolistic thuggery.

[edoc]

OK, on further research, there is an exception:
http://www.ekoore.com/web/en/product/t ... ons-7.html

Italian manufacturer.

Android 4.2, MS windows 8 Metro (giggle), & Ubuntu 13.4.

And, wait for it, only $700. USD

[vtpup]

CNC under Puppy? Better have that machine in a deep bunker somewhere...

Explain please? I've run LinuxCNC on my mill via Ubuntu and Debian.

The main hangup for Puppy is getting a version compiled on a RTAI kernel version compatible with LinuxCNC. Why a bunker?

Just getting Puppy to run headless will boggle you for a couple of years...

Uh, years ago I ran a 1998 era Thinkpad laptop with a broken screen as a headless server under Puppy 4.10. No big deal -- running a TightVNC server and a VNC client on another machine to control it. Worked fine, and had its own built in UPS, being a laptop.

Unless you have an incredibly slow connection to ibiblio, downloading and installing a VNC pet doesn't take errr uhhh couple of years.....

[amigo]

A deep bunker because puppy is so unpredictable -you shouldn't trust it to behave while controlling dangerous machinery. Headless, well if there is a single pet which enables that, then great, as long as it works. I would doubt that it would work on various puppy versions -just as with any thing puppy.

[edoc]

According to this article

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/ ... -1162825/2

OpenSUSE 12.2 runs well on an Acer Iconia W500

[edoc]

Here's Linux on an Acer W700 w/solution to pairing Bluetooth keyboard & other devices:

http://community.acer.com/t5/Windows-Ta ... td-p/47489

NOTE: The W700 doesn't have an SD card slot - the W500 does.

[vtpup]

Amigo, i don't find The puppies I've run to be "unpredictable", or my CNC mill to be "dangerous machinery".

But then I routinely use a chainsaw, wood splitter welding torch, homemade bandsaw mill, table saw, router, 1951 John Deere Model M tractor logging on a mountain in the snow, and being a fallible human being and in far less predictable environments at the time, I guess mine is a relative judgement..

Generally speaking I don't put my hands on the milling table with the power on. I'd say the possibility that I've written faulty G-code is far more likely to break a bit in the miller or ruin a part, than the operating system going crazy.

I'd say the most dangerous machine in my shop is the bench grinder, followed by the drill press. I use a whole lot of caution with those.

[Burn_IT]

Ah bench grinder as a missile launcher!
Got the teeshirt.
My missile went through two walls before it stopped in the third.