is puppy top heavy?

[learnhow2code]

But as a self-confessed master of coding this minor irritation of bugs in the remaster script should be childs play for you to sort out.

look dont bother me nic-- not that its very relevant to my post, but since you insist... go tell the relevant poster that the loss of the contents of her entire hd is a "minor irritation." im sure she will thank you for the usual level of understanding you have of people and their concerns.

We are looking forward to your bullet-proof edition of a remaster script.

spitting image has you and shuttleworth figured out alright-- i like dave matthews but you remind me more of his fans at concerts.

[jlst]

Regarding the remaster script... i've never used it, i agree that it must be fixed, but i wrote my own remaster script, i'm not sure if if i'm up to the task to edit the official one.

Well, woofce is gradually becoming a new entity, to be honest to make a woofce puppy really usable for most purposes one must literally break many scripts outside of woofce by fixing bugs (such as the coreutils/util-linux/busybox mess).

[learnhow2code]

Regarding the remaster script... i've never used it, i agree that it must be fixed,

and interestingly this thread isnt even about asking anyone to fix it-- (although thats a related topic thats perfectly welcome here) but about the pros and cons of some of the design decisions involved. if that inspires fixes, well thats fine.

but i wrote my own remaster script, i'm not sure if if i'm up to the task to edit the official one.

thats exactly what im getting at-- im not sure how many people are up to editing the official one. but as long as its designed with that in mind, and as long as some people are up to it, i suppose its fine. imo its a good thing if people are offering alternatives and working on those.

woofce is gradually becoming a new entity, to be honest to make a woofce puppy really usable for most purposes one must literally break many scripts outside of woofce by fixing bugs (such as the coreutils/util-linux/busybox mess).

this is more what im getting at.

as long as people are up to working around it, thats great.

[jlst]

technosauru's approach to deal with problems seems to be the most reasonable.. as simple as possible. i read he's rewriting scripts to produce another major alternative.

when working with puppy... finding the needed documentation at the right time can be a bit difficult. i learned by reading the scripts and what they do, how they do it... i guess that's the hard way.

i'd like to write some docs, but somebody must proofread what i write, as i'm stuck at intermediate level

[learnhow2code]

when working with puppy... finding the needed documentation at the right time can be a bit difficult. i learned by reading the scripts and what they do, how they do it... i guess that's the hard way.

sometimes its the only way-- and thats alright. sometimes its a real challenge to find the thing youre looking for in there, because there are several things its collected over time.

there used to be more people learning enough to write docs and answer questions.

while its easy to take this as a complaint, its really just a suggestion that we keep streamlining a little here and there, if only so the next generation of puppy dev+enthusiasts can come in and add their own customizations.

that seems to be what a number of people are doing right now, so you can take it as a complaint that they need to, or you can take it as me cheering on the effort. the former serves no purpose, and the latter is what i feel inclined to do. its a little self-serving, but if thats the cost of cheering on someone elses work, thats probably ok.

[slavvo67]

I'm sorry, I guess I misread. But I have used the built in remaster script on many occasions with many different Puppies and never had a problem. Some derivatives, like the Fatdog script (don't recall which version) did not save my changes.

I think it's generally a user issue if they deleted their data using a built-in remaster script. In my testing, at least some of the other remaster scripts (pets) available on the board do have issues and do not work properly, at least for me. Personally, i try to test and test again any script or pet before I post but some may post alpha versions that can really screw up a beginner.

Just my 2-cents and I hope I hit the point a little better this time.

Best,

Slavvo67

[learnhow2code]

I think it's generally a user issue if they deleted their data using a built-in remaster script. In my testing, at least some of the other remaster scripts (pets) available on the board do have issues and do not work properly, at least for me.

youre not necessarily wrong-- in any case im more "concerned" with the ability of the community to maintain the scripts in question than the present level of functionality-- and the ability of the community to continue doing what its doing.

there isnt necessarily a problem at all, although if you consider a decrease in dev/user community/connection/communication an issue, i think that can probably be proven somehow.

rather than reading it as a bug report with unclear details, i recommend filing it under "random idea/informal rfc." but in any case, thanks for letting me clarify. incidentally, this talk of the remaster script reminds me of a recent exchange in #devuan on freenode:

lkcl
Lydia_K: debian installer has to cover a massive number of use-cases in a very very resource-limited environment
Lydia_K: so it can't use dpkg or bash... because those require too much space. busybox and a special cut-down version of dpkg is needed.
Lydia_K: there's also pre-seeding which helps pre-answer many of the questions that you get asked

Lydia_K
I'm sure, and I don't mean to **** on it, I just found the whole thing really confusing.

lkcl
there's options for running debian-installer over different prptocols
Lydia_K: you will. it's written by some extraordinarily gifted programmers who understand the complexities of covering dozens of different use-cases on dozens of different OSes, using layer on layer of abstraction to refine things down to fit inside the absolute minimal environments

Lydia_K
I got the feeling that it was one of those things that grew out of control early on and now would be a momumental effort to change or break up, but that was just my impression of it from digging around for a while trying to find some answers.

fwiw, im quite certain i would rather edit the puppy remaster scripts than debian-installer...

[greengeek]

People will come to you with problems and you must be able to solve them, at least for the most part -- and if you can't, you are just wasting everyone else's time.

I don't agree about it being a waste of time - I think every genuine effort to build a new puppy or puplet or puprototype expands the options for other users and i don't consider it a waste of time at all.

Of course it is preferable if someone has the skills to fully maintain the new pup and solve every possible issue - but I think that is unrealistic and I think anyone who wants to release a pup should do so and be happy to enlist the support of other users in troubleshooting and finding solutions.

Anyone who expects perfection from a "dev" or a "user dev" or a "part dev+user" or whatever is just asking too much. It is the support of the wider puppy community on this forum that allows problems to be solved where a single person may not have the solution.

BTW - you are a dev in my eyes. Anyone who is brave enough to release a protopup should feel proud of their release - warts and all. Sure, we know the top devs really deserve their title - but as well as meaning "developer" - "dev" means "development" and every contribution feeds the overall development of puppy as a distro that can offer something to the everexpanding variety of different users.

Dev on dude!!

[learnhow2code]

that was a particularly excellent post, greengeek-- refreshingly insightful and thoughtful without either pandering or biting, and generally doing justice to everything it mentions.

[starhawk]

@green -- thanks, really -- but I'm just a user, for now at least, and I'm fine with that.