Which is the latest 32-bit Puppy that can save to a live CD?

Message

proebler · #21 Post by **proebler** » Mon 07 May 2018, 06:52

tallboy,
perhaps you need not worry too much about limited RAM.
The SysInfo below is from a Pentium M laptop with 750 MB RAM.
It is almost as old as my P4 and does run UPup Bionic Beaver (upupbb) 18.05 quite satisfactorily from live CD.
The 'Light' browser works ok and and I have run a DVD video with MPlayer successfully (boot CD removed)
I had to forcepae at boot and then load the fdrv_upupbb_18.05.sfs on-the-fly in order to be able to use a wifi dongle (the laptop has no in-built wifi).

It is a Puppy after all

, I suggest you give it a try.

PC Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name: HP Compaq nc8000 (PQ168PA#ABG)

Motherboard Vendor: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name: 088C

BIOS Vendor: Hewlett-Packard
Version: 68BAR Ver. F.12
Release Date: 08/17/2004

Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz
Max Speed: 1600 MHz
Current Speed of Core

Frequency governor : ondemand
Freq. scaling driver : acpi-cpufreq

Sensor status is not available, or local hardware is not supported.

Personal Storage: RAM Disk
Size Used Free Use%
372M 250M 123M 68%

Memory Allocation:
(one window each of Abiword, Rox Filer and PupSysInfo open)
Total RAM: 743 MB
Used RAM: 663 MB
Free RAM: 80 MB
Buffers: 83 MB
Cached: 457 MB
Total Swap: 0 MB
Free Swap: 0 MB

Actual Used RAM: 123 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 620 MB Free + (buffers + cached)

Linux Kernel: 4.9.96-lxpup-32-pae (i686)
Kernel Version: #1 SMP Thu Apr 26 11:45:00 +08 2018
PAE Enabled: Yes

Kernel Command Line:
initrd=initrd.gz pmedia=cd BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz forcepae

Distro: UPupBB 18.05
Window Manager: JWM v2.3.7
Desktop Start: xwin jwm

regards
proebler

tallboy · #22 Post by **tallboy** » Mon 07 May 2018, 17:44

perhaps you need not worry too much about limited RAM.

I actually got a warning in Xenial about lack of space as I tried to save something to /root/ (I can't remember what, and the exact words).

musher0 · #23 Post by **musher0** » Mon 07 May 2018, 20:47

Out of the Blue:

Perhaps try pemasu's Upup-Raring-3.9.9.2?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... ost#713317

Or its "Vincent-Van-Pup" artsy re-incarnation by former member Starhawk?
https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_vincentvanpup
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=89395

april · #24 Post by **april** » Tue 08 May 2018, 06:53

tallboy wrote:
perhaps you need not worry too much about limited RAM.
I actually got a warning in Xenial about lack of space as I tried to save something to /root/ (I can't remember what, and the exact words).

Thats the usual message about no room left in the savefile isn't it?

mikeslr · #25 Post by **mikeslr** » Tue 08 May 2018, 15:22

Hi Tallboy,

As I've never run Puppies as a Multi-session CD/DVDs I don't know if it can. But musher0's post jogged my memory to consider newer Puppies which might. I was very impressed with csipesz's Precise 5.7.1 minimal, available from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 774#954774. My post about it is on the 3rd page of that thread.

I also don't know how it compares to rerwin's Lupusupers (Lupus with updated kernels).

mikesLr

tallboy · #26 Post by **tallboy** » Tue 08 May 2018, 18:02

april wrote:Thats the usual message about no room left in the savefile isn't it?

I don't know, I never ever used a savefile!

I really liked musher0's Xenial with a dowgraded kernel, but it would not save the session to the disc.

Thank you for yuor kind suggestions on other distros, but I had hoped I would get some advice that would spare me the download and burning of a lot of distros that don't save to a multisession disc...

It is always fun to play, but I already have a huge stack of CDs and DVDs with different Puppy .isos...

oui · #27 Post by **oui** » Tue 08 May 2018, 21:08

sorry tallboy

tallboy wrote:
In my experience whichever you choose to run with when asked to select your save file take the "ext4" file extension.
april and mikeslr: Sorry gentlemen, but you failed to understand my original question.
The point is that I never use a save-file! I run my puppies from RAM, not frugal but loaded from a live CD. And that is difficult with many late puppies.

this is absolutely not true. you generate a wrong opinion on Puppy...

in my eyes, this stay to be the standard way for puppy exactly as money continue to be the real standard way for payment else if someone prefer paypal or bitcoints etc. ...

the real question can possibly be:

which of the new moderns puppy can work friendly on old hardware. this is a different question (the olds one can that! the most of them!). for ex. warns Barry Kauler against the use of his new creations (Quirky's) on hardware having less than concrete power of RAM etc.

but the same question is possible inverted: which new terrible better hardware continue to permit to test old puppies (release 0,26 .. 2,11, only from this point, it was possible to really connect and use USB input hardware!). for those puppy's I continue to have an old museum i486-book PC! It can read, of course, my old CD-RW's from Puppy release probably 1.3 or 1.4 including the on the CD-RW recorded files. My new hardwares can't do it any more!

Kind regards

kind regards

#28 Post by **Flash** » Tue 08 May 2018, 22:53

I'm running upup Bionic Beaver from a DVD (same as running from a CD) completely in RAM. It's a 32-bit Ubuntu-based Puppy. I had to enter puppy acpi=off or something like that at the boot screen to get it to work in my computer. I've installed some stuff and then remastered the DVD (Menu -> Setup -> Remaster) but haven't yet rebooted with the remastered DVD.

tallboy · #29 Post by **tallboy** » Thu 10 May 2018, 04:50

oui wrote:this is absolutely not true. you generate a wrong opinion on Puppy...

Really?

and oui also wrote:the real question can possibly be:
which of the new moderns puppy can work friendly on old hardware. this is a different question

Yes! It is a different question, and it is not what I ask for!

I am looking for the latest Puppy which will run in old PCs from a live, multisession CD.
Why?
My hardware is old, and not all have a DVD-player, just a CD-player/burner.
Most have early USB, not all.
Most have 512Mb or 1Gb RAM.
For some reason, many late Puppies can not save to a multisession disc, which is a vital point if you want to run from a live CD, and save to the same CD. They can burn a multisession CD, but not save to it.

Flash:
How much RAM do you have?
How much RAM and HDD space is required for doing a remaster?
Have you saved your sessions to the disc?

mikeslr · #30 Post by **mikeslr** » Thu 10 May 2018, 15:40

Hi Tallboy,

proebler's posts, especially his note about how to switch to the Xorg server 1.11.4, appear to provide a way forward with upupbb (Bionic Beaver) running from a Live CD. Flash noted that it would run from a Live DVD. [In my ignorance, I would assume that the mechanism is the same, only the later providing more storage].

My own experience with upupbb's RAM usage is almost identical to proebler's, albeit I don't run from a Live CD: there's a great amount of data being buffered or cached, but actual RAM in use was 121. None of my swap had been employed as I had sufficient RAM. But I would assume that with 512 RAM and a 'generous' swap upupbb would still have functioned, albeit more slowly.

What I've also experienced with upupbb is that many applications built for older OSes ran OOTB. As your plan is to make use of older-less-ram-demanding applications and remaster, upupbb may well provide the modern Puppy for Older hardware you desire.

If it does, and does so satisfactorily, perhaps you might consider publishing your remastered ISO for those Puppy fans similarly situated.

If it doesn't, then let us know that as well. As you know many of us don't run Puppies from LiveCD/DVDs. Some of us don't even have CD/DVD burners which makes personally testing ideas regarding running from LiveCD/DVDs impossible. But we are really good at coming up with ideas about what someone else might do.

mikesLr

hamoudoudou · #31 Post by **hamoudoudou** » Thu 10 May 2018, 16:35

I still have CD (CD !) with sessions registered on it. i think it's french Toutou 4.3.1 I have DVDs too, with sessions registered on it.. Bad souvenirs.. How many hours spent to find one CD trademark which do it.. I will give info later. Because lot of criteria are needed, not only trademark, but where the CD was built (Made in india, or Mexico or ... Marocco). Viva USBs, never i will burn again CD or DVD, excepted if i want to keep a Puppy which i suppose to disappear (PolarpupQT 005 is one of them, but i failed with multissessions)
Furthermore Some CDs can be played only on cd-burner where they were burn. A Nightmare !
I think Puppy is not the criteria, but CD.. It was dificult to find CD-RW 4 years ago, not available in all shops.
Screenshots and topic CD-RW by Musher
"In short:
for CDRW's, use the command: cd-info
for DVDRW's, use the command: cd-info --dvd"

#32 Post by **Flash** » Thu 10 May 2018, 17:38

tallboy wrote:...Flash:
How much RAM do you have?

I have 2 x 2GB sticks of RAM in this computer, but even 64-bit Puppies say there's only a little over 3GB of memory. Maybe that's because the video card is reserving the difference or maybe I got cheated on the RAM sticks. Still, 3 GB has been plenty for me to do everything I want, including remastering.

How much RAM and HDD space is required for doing a remaster?

I don't use a hard disk drive at all for anything, haven't used one for years. My luck with them has been dismal, so I don't use them. I do have several flash drives plugged into USB ports, but I haven't used them for extra memory while remastering. I don't remember how much memory remastering used but there has always been enough RAM to do the job.

Have you saved your sessions to the disc?

No. Bionic Beaver doesn't do multisession. I wish it did.

Barry's remastering program included the stuff I installed and the settings I made to Puppy but didn't include my browser settings or the puppy acpi=off that has to be entered each time the DVD is booted. I don't know what I have to manually add to the remastered stuff to make those things work.

James C · #33 Post by **James C** » Thu 10 May 2018, 20:20

I'm running the latest Bionic Beaver 18.05A as a multi-session DVD.

In my case the size doesn't matter because I've got plenty of ram and some swap.
Other than being unable to load an sfs things are working well.

Code: Select all

# inxi -Fxx
System:    Host: puppypc21002 Kernel: 4.9.96-lxpup-32-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 7.3.0)
           Desktop: JWM 2.3.7 dm: N/A Distro: UPupBB 18.05
Machine:   Device: desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: M5A97 LE R2.0 v: Rev 1.xx serial: 150545593600028
           BIOS: American Megatrends v: 2601 date: 03/24/2015
CPU:       Hexa core AMD FX-6300 Six-Core (-MCP-) cache: 12288 KB
           flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm) bmips: 42138
           clock speeds: min/max: 1400/3500 MHz 1: 1400 MHz 2: 2000 MHz
           3: 1400 MHz 4: 1400 MHz 5: 2000 MHz 6: 1400 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GT218 [GeForce 210] bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0a65
           Display Server: X.org 1.19.6 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,vesa)
           tty size: 80x24 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Audio:     Card-1 NVIDIA High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:0be3
           Card-2 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2 chip-ID: 1002:4383
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.9.96-lxpup-32-pae
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000
           bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168
           IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full
           mac: 1c:87:2c:5a:bb:e2
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1200.3GB (0.7% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: KINGSTON_SV300S3 size: 120.0GB serial: N/A
           ID-2: /dev/sdb model: WDC_WD10EZEX size: 1000.2GB serial: N/A
           ID-3: /dev/sdc model: 0JB size: 80.0GB serial: N/A
           ID-1: swap-1 size: 8.60GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sdb5
RAID:      System: supported: linear raid0 raid1 raid10 raid6 raid5 raid4
           No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
           Unused Devices: none
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 20.9C mobo: N/A gpu: 43.0
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 192 Uptime: 16 min Memory: 270.0/16111.6MB
           Init: SysVinit v: N/A runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: N/A
           Client: Shell (bash 4.4.191 running in lxterminal) inxi: 2.3.8

Code: Select all

# free
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:       16498328      246316    15540324      365412      711688    14759844
Swap:       8396796           0     8396796
#

tallboy · #34 Post by **tallboy** » Thu 10 May 2018, 23:12

hamoudoudou wrote:Furthermore Some CDs can be played only on cd-burner where they were burn.

I think that problem usually happens with laptops.

If it does, and does so satisfactorily, perhaps you might consider publishing your remastered ISO for those Puppy fans similarly situated.
If it doesn't, then let us know that as well.

Yes, of course I will do that, Mike

Flash wrote:Have you saved your sessions to the disc?
No. Bionic Beaver doesn't do multisession. I wish it did.

Hmmm.

James C wrote:I'm running the latest Bionic Beaver 18.05A as a multi-session DVD.

Hmmmmm.

I wonder, could there be a difference between saving to a CD or DVD? Could there be differences in the 'save session to disc' code? I'll try to dig out some code examples from the .isos.
I have always used CD/DVD -R discs without any problems, never -RW discs.

I'll download and install the BiBe, and see what happens.

#35 Post by **Flash** » Thu 10 May 2018, 23:17

James C wrote:I'm running the latest Bionic Beaver 18.05A as a multi-session DVD.

How? I know there must be a script or something that makes it work, but I never bothered to find out if it could be ported to versions of Puppy that didn't come with it. Is there a .pet that adds it?

tallboy wrote:Hmmmmm.

I wonder, could there be a difference between saving to a CD or DVD? Could there be differences in the 'save session to disc' code? I'll try to dig out some code examples from the .isos.
I have always used CD/DVD -R discs without any problems, never -RW discs.

Multisession was not in the original CD specifications. It just sort of grew out of necessity and opportunity. Each manufacturer implemented it their own way. Later versions of the CD specification did include multisession, but by then everyone was already doing it wrong.

Multisession was included in the DVD specification, so it works much better from a DVD than from a CD.
That said, rewritable DVDs are handy for trying out lots of new Puppies but my experience is that if they're more than five years old they should be thrown away. Stick with DVD-R or DVD+R for the Puppies you want to keep.

James C · #36 Post by **James C** » Thu 10 May 2018, 23:57

Flash wrote:
James C wrote:I'm running the latest Bionic Beaver 18.05A as a multi-session DVD.
How? I know there must be a script or something that makes it work, but I never bothered to find out if it could be ported to versions of Puppy that didn't come with it. Is there a .pet that adds it?

Didn't do anything out of the ordinary.Burned the DVD with burniso2cd then rebooted.When I shut down the save dialog came up then on the next screen clicked the save to cd button. no pets,no scripts just the default 18.05A iso.

#37 Post by **Flash** » Fri 11 May 2018, 01:00

I'll be damned. I never thought of just shutting down. It seems so final when you're running from RAM.

So all this time I've been saying that recent Puppies can't do multisession when they can? Why didn't someone set me straight?

Thanks! You just made my day.

tallboy · #38 Post by **tallboy** » Fri 11 May 2018, 01:53

Flash wrote:So all this time I've been saying that recent Puppies can't do multisession when they can? Why didn't someone set me straight?

You are now touching the issue that I have been trying to point out in this thread:

NOT ALL RECENT PUPPIES CAN SAVE TO A MULTISESSION CD, BUT I AM

DOING MY BEST TO FIND OUT WHICH ONES THAT CAN!

When you use the SAVE option in the shutdown dialog the first time, you activate a script that ask if you want to save to disc. If you confirm your intentions to do so, you also activate a script that places a SAVE button on your desktop for future, random saves to disc, without having to use the shutdown dialog, if you prefer that. You may want to save important work as you go along. See script code below.
I think that the contents of those scripts may have changed over time, and that some of the makers of new puppies might even have found them too old to include in a late version.
And for the record, I did just what James C described, I used the shutdown dialog. My problem is that it didn't work in musher0's xenialPup-7.0.6 32-bits with kernel 4.1 when I tried to save to a multisession CD. I might have worked with a DVD, but as I told, my ancient hardware usually don't have a DVD burner, if I'm lucky they have a CD burner.

Flash wrote:I don't know what I have to manually add to the remastered stuff to make those things work

Simple, don't throw away the old /root and /etc dirs as the remaster program suggest, just edit them instead! That's what I do.

Moderators: To avoid misunderstandings, I have renamed this thread:
Which is the latest 32-bit Puppy that can save to a live CD?

From Lucid 5.2.8.7: /usr/sbin/savesession-dvd

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#(c) Copyright Barry Kauler 2006 www.puppylinux.com
#2007 Lesser GPL licence v2 (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/lgpl.html)
#BK updated may 2007 for 2.16.
#BK updated v2.22, sync with rc.shutdown multisession bugfix.
#v3.01: BK 11 oct 2007, removed multisavefunc() to /etc/rc.d/functions4puppy.
#v412 /etc/DISTRO_SPECS, renamed pup_xxx.sfs, pup_save.2fs etc.
#v555 pup files renamed to woofr555.sfs, woofsave.2fs.
#w482 use xorriso instead of cdrtools/cdrkit if installed.

#/etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown saves session at shutdown, savesession-dvd is called
#from desktop icon to do an immediate save to multisession-cd.

#w482 use xorriso if it is installed (see also functions4puppy)...
CDRECORD='cdrecord'
MKISOFS='mkisofs'
if [ "`which xorriso`" != "" ];then
 CDRECORD='xorrecord'
 MKISOFS='xorrisofs' #growisofs reads this variable.
fi
export CDRECORD MKISOFS

#variables created at bootup by /initrd/usr/sbin/init...
. /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE #v2.02
. /etc/DISTRO_SPECS #v412
ORIGPUPMODE=$PUPMODE #v2.22
#PUPPYVERSION="`cat /etc/puppyversion`"

. /etc/rc.d/functions4puppy #v3.01 has multisavefunc.

CONSRUN="$1" #will execute multisavefunc from a rxvt console.
#...this script calls itself a second time, as multisavefunc uses dialog,
#   and runs without X.
#also test if X not running...
[ "`pidof X | grep '[0-9]'`" = "" ] && CONSRUN="yes"

if [ ! "$PUPSAVE" = "" ];then
 SAVEFS="`echo -n "$PUPSAVE" | cut -f 2 -d ','`"   #f.s. and partition where ${DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX}save.2fs is located.
 SAVEPART="`echo -n "$PUPSAVE" | cut -f 1 -d ','`" # "
 SAVEFILE="`echo -n "$PUPSAVE" | cut -f 3 -d ','`"
else
 exit #v2.22
fi
CDR="/dev/$SAVEPART"


if [ ! "$CONSRUN" = "" ];then
 multisavefunc
 exit
fi


if [ "$PUPMODE" != "77" ];then
 xmessage -bg "indian red" -center -title "SaveSession-DVD" "Sorry, this is not a multisession live-CD/DVD"
 exit
fi
if [ "$CDR" = "" ];then
 xmessage -bg "indian red" -center -title "SaveSession-DVD" "Sorry, this is not a multisession live-CD/DVD"
 exit
fi


#before can save a session back to DVD, have to be sure that DVD is unmounted...
if [ "`mount | grep "$CDR"`" != "" ];then
 sync
 echo "Unmounting $CDR..."
 fuser -k -m $CDR
 sync
 umount $CDR
 if [ ! $? -eq 0 ];then
  xmessage -bg "indian red" -center -title "SaveSession: ERROR" "Sorry, $CDR is currently mounted and cannot be automatically
unmounted. You will need to unmount it manually.

Click OK button to quit..."
  exit
 fi
fi

xmessage -bg "#ffc0c0" -center -title "SaveSession" -buttons "SAVE:10,CANCEL:11" "This program takes a snapshot of changed and new files and
saves them to CD/DVD. For the multisession-CD/DVD, this happens
at shutdown, however, if you are working on critical files and
do not want to lose your work in case of a power-outage or
system crash (latter very unlikely), this program is a solution
-- just run it whenever you want to backup.

WARNING: CDs have much less space than DVDs, and there is more
wasted space in each saved session, meaning that a CD will fill
up fast. Therefore, for CDs use this Save script infrequently.

Click SAVE button to save session..."
[ ! $? -eq 10 ] && exit

#recursive execution...
exec rxvt -e /usr/sbin/savesession-dvd yes

###END###

There is also this funny little script in /ets/shutdown_save_mode

Code: Select all

#User-selectable flash drive save options:
#   ask = At shutdown, ask user whether to save to flash drive.
#Remove the "#" from an option below, to activate it.

#ask

The question about wanting to save to a multisession disc, is found at line 173 in /usr/sbin/shutdownconfig.

#39 Post by **Flash** » Fri 11 May 2018, 03:20

tallboy wrote:...
Flash wrote:I don't know what I have to manually add to the remastered stuff to make those things work
Simple, don't throw away the old /root and /etc dirs as the remaster program suggest, just edit them instead! That's what I do.

Thanks, I'll look into that. Although if I can do multisession saves to the Puppy DVD instead of remastering, I won't need it.

There is also this funny little script in /ets/shutdown_save_mode
Code: Select all
#User-selectable flash drive save options:
#   ask = At shutdown, ask user whether to save to flash drive.
#Remove the "#" from an option below, to activate it.

#ask
The question about wanting to save to a multisession disc, is found at line 173 in /usr/sbin/shutdownconfig.

Forum member Ted Dog messed around with multisession flash drives. Maybe this code is left over from that.

James C · #40 Post by **James C** » Fri 11 May 2018, 06:45

Since I had a few free moments I did a multisession Bionic CD.Possting from it now and already saved a session to the cd.Same process as the DVD earlier.

If memory serves, the last real multisession I used was Tahrpup so I have no idea about any releases between Tahr and Bionic.

But to answer the original question, the latest Pup to run from a multi-session CD is Bionic because I'm running it now.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Which is the latest 32-bit Puppy that can save to a live CD?

Possibly Precise 5.7.1 Minimal or Barebones

Summing Up -- Moving forward

I still have CD (CD !) with sessions registered on it.