Puppy 2.15 Viz Alpha Released

[Lobster]

Alpha now available

Alpha (based on 2.14 Final core) please mirror aprox 140MB
http://tmxxine.com/viz/puppy-215CE-Alpha.iso

What will it be like
We will release two versions:

Standard Viz

• Basic Puppy - all patches
  FireFox default browser

Office Viz
(with Open Office Write and Calc - being worked on by Nathan)

Priorities for Beta

* Simple default Linsta theme with consistent icons using IceWm
* GTK themes
* Firefox with Flash and Flashblock
* Sylpheed Claws / Thunderbird
* Default Offline web page
* Latest updates and patches

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/CommunityEdition

[Gekko]

What about multiple users? We NEED multiple users, mainly for proxies and security. If puppy ever goes mainstream, we need to pick up on that!

[WhoDo]

What about multiple users? We NEED multiple users, mainly for proxies and security. If puppy ever goes mainstream, we need to pick up on that!

Relax, Gekko. That's on the drawing board already. It won't be in Alpha, but that release is really just to firm up look-and-feel and general software inclusions.

The 2.15 Core project - the underlying Puppy consolidation - is looking at encrypted pup-save files, multi-user capability, GUI front-ends for setup functions, etc. Check out the Puppy 2.15CE wiki page for full details of the current ToDo list. It's pretty extensive.

On that subject, here is the current list of included software for 2.15CE. The standard ISO will be 142Mb, and the Office ISO 256Mb, unless we can cut down the size of this list without crippling the intended "full functionality out of the box" project objective.

Code: Select all

2.15CE Standard Software List:

Rox 2.5
Icewm 1.2.30 Window Manager standard / JWM Window Manager included
39 x high quality Icewm themes to suit any taste
XDG menus by rarsa - dynamic menu system
PETget package manager (dotpets)
MU's Puppy Software Installer (dotpups)
16 x high quality wallpaper backgrounds (/usr/share/backgrounds)
3.5Mb high quality icons (/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps)
MU-Gtk-Themechooser, preset to Linsta theme
3DCC - 3D Control Centre for 3D effects, window shadows, etc.
PupBegone integrated package removal tool
GIMP-2.3.10-CVS-Gtk-2.8 graphics manipulation
Xsane scanner tool
Abiword word processor
Geany text editor
Ghostview PDF viewer
Gnumeric spreadsheet editor
Xfinans finance management
Ical calendar appointments
Firelog firewall monitor
TightVNC vnc client for remote PC access
RemoteDesktopClient 0.3 for remote Winserver access
PVolume - Puppy enhanced sound mixer
Firefox 2.0.1 web browser with Flash 7 and Flashblock (Flash 9 available)
Thunderbird email client
Gaim messenger client MSN/Yahoo/IRC/ICQ/Jabber
Gxine Gtk media player
Grafburn easy-to-use CD/DVD burning GUI
GCombust CD writer
TkDVD DVD writer
Games collection - includes Euchre, Supertux, Tkhearts, Tkyahtzee (more titles available for download)


2.15CE Office Edition

All of the above software plus
Open Office suite 2.0.4 sfs version
CUPS 0.3?
JavaRE 1.5.08?

Any comments / suggestions / questions?

[Lobster]

included
39 x high quality Icewm themes to suit any taste

39? - sounds way too many

16 x high quality wallpaper backgrounds (/usr/share/backgrounds)

Too many (these are big pics) that can be provided as .PETS

3.5Mb high quality icons (/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps)

again sounds like way too much. What format are they - how many sets?

GIMP-2.3.10-CVS-Gtk-2.8 graphics manipulation

Why? No one has ever asked for Gimp or Xara as standard.
We have a small vector editor and graphics editor
there is an argument for Open Office Write
but not for Gimp - that is your preference - naughty naughty

Xsane scanner tool

m m m maybe - what is the size?

Games collection - includes Euchre, Supertux, Tkhearts, Tkyahtzee (more titles available for download)

I . . .. eh . . . wonder if that might be termed bloat.

I would tend to say yes to CUPS (even though I rarely print) but no to Java

Thanks for keeping us updated and informed

[WhoDo]

included
39 x high quality Icewm themes to suit any taste

39? - sounds way too many

Agreed. Question is which ones to leave out? I have my preferences but others will likely differ. I would think 10 was more than ample. The rest can be installed from PETget later.

16 x high quality wallpaper backgrounds (/usr/share/backgrounds)

Too many (these are big pics) that can be provided as .PETS

Agreed. Same issues as above. I'd think 5 would be plenty, but which 5? Answer would be linked to 10 themes selected above, IMHO.

3.5Mb high quality icons (/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps)

again sounds like way too much. What format are they - how many sets?

I could easily cut this down to around .5-1Mb IF the community were to give me carte blanche with the axe!

GIMP-2.3.10-CVS-Gtk-2.8 graphics manipulation

Why? No one has ever asked for Gimp or Xara as standard.
We have a small vector editor and graphics editor
there is an argument for Open Office Write
but not for Gimp - that is your preference - naughty naughty

Not true! Check your list of requests. A few have asked for it, but some only want it in the Office version. It could get the chop from Standard but the fact is that mtPaint and Inkscape don't really "cut it" for a "fully functional" distribution. They're fine in a normal Puppy release, but this isn't a normal Puppy release. It's a chance to show what's available for Puppy "off the shelf" so to speak.

Xsane scanner tool

m m m maybe - what is the size?

Small enough, but I'm leaning toward taking it out. Scanning is not your normal function for most users, and it seems a bit flakey to me. We'll see.

Games collection - includes Euchre, Supertux, Tkhearts, Tkyahtzee (more titles available for download)

I . . .. eh . . . wonder if that might be termed bloat.

Of course it could, but only by SOME people. These games are designed to attract refugees and, apart from Supertux which is a showcase application, they don't take up much space at all. Typical of Tcl/tk applications they are very light and very good!

I would tend to say yes to CUPS (even though I rarely print) but no to Java

Thanks for keeping us updated and informed

Me too, and you're welcome!

[Sage]

The one thing Puppy does NOT need is multiple user accounts.

Those running full installations on single machine can get this with SuSE, FC, Mandriva, PCLinOS, etc. Puppy users needing multiple user facilities can have a liveCD or USB keyfob each or, better still, an old PC each liberated from an early landfill fate.
The real danger with community versions of anything is like any committee decision, you end up with the proverbial elephant.
Don't do it guys!

[Lobster]

It all makes perfect sense
- I would suggest GimpShop
for the enhanced version . . .
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/GimpGraphics

I heard from Dave (logo design)
he is working on at least one "V" logo - available later today . . .

so I suggest "V" as the codename for the standard
and the slightly longer "Viz" for our larger VIZage

am splitting the growing wiki page into components

[slvrldy17]

Whodo, Lobster
Just as I finally got around to producing my list of what a community edition needs this thread shows up. Good thing - spent the last couple of weeks down with Bronchitis and the energy to do much of anything just hasn't been there. On the mend and more or less back to normal now though.

Looking at the list there isn't really much for me to quibble with - I believe that Lobsters comment was on the mark where including Gimp is concerned. For the average user it is a bit much. Might I suggest substituting Picassa instead? It includes some basic photo editing tools and is a superb way to organize your photos. Probably quite sufficient for the average users needs. The other major need is some type of a Power Point viewer - perhaps the Impress module from Open Office or Tonic Point? Receiving a power point slide show as an email attachment is not at all uncommon these days - the lack of a way to open them in Puppy has been one of its shortcomings.

Speaking of email programs/attachments brings one other thing to mind - and that is the necessary links in Puppy's setup so that when an attachment in an email is clicked on that it will either open automatically in for ex. Abiword, Gnumeric, etc. or at least pop up a box offering to do so. That is one thing that people who have used Windows and are new to Puppy have commented on/missed.

I'll be looking forward to seeing 2.15 Alpha in the near future. Thanks for taking the time to consider these ramblings.

[veronicathecow]

Hi, my 3 peneth. First of all many thanks as always, Puppy and various breeds are really appreciated.

GIMP for me in standard please. It's part of the reason I use "Rudy"

Wallpapers, icons, etc I don't want and switch off anything as a first thing.
I have had 2 detached retinas and have cataracts in the right eye so above all clarity is what I want.

K£B CD/DVD writer (The only one that has ever worked reliably for me.)

No games would be fine by me (RSI as well so cannot do extra things like games) How about a Lots of games " Dotpup?

Office writer, calc and impress are what I use daily

thanks!

[PaulBx1]

Ghostview is pretty lame. Can we really not find a better pdf viewer? At minimum it should be able to cut text (in a useful way, not just a cropped image) and search for text. Here is a discussion of pdf viewers:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=9930

Since the whole world wants to go to Firefox, I'm wondering about the upgrade process from Seamonkey to Firefox/Thunderbird, then in 2.16 back to Seamonkey. Are the two compatible enough that all the settings, bookmarks, profiles, emails, etc. copy over properly?

[Sit Heel Speak]

Ghostview is pretty lame. Can we really not find a better pdf viewer?

Did anyone ever follow up on OxygenOffice Professional, mentioned by Lobster at
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14614
?
According to OOP's Sourceforge entry, at
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=634346
it supports "enhanced PDF management." I haven't had time to study it myself.

[Nathan F]

Let me be totally frank here, no let me be totally harsh here. This is way too big. Especially the standard edition. I'd be the first to cut Gimp out, and I created that package originally. I'd also cut Supertux, but the tcl games are fine. Cut 90% of the Wallpapers and a large proportion of the IceWM themes, and I'm sure the icons can be chopped. I'd also cut Thunderbird from the standard edition and instead go with either Sylpheed or Claws-mail, which I have offered to package for the project. In short let's come up with a distro that isn't two and a half (!) times the size of a standard Puppy. What I would like, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, is for the size to be the same or smaller than Puppy-2.14. If we can't achieve that then why can't we at least keep it to 100MB or less? A lot of us remember when Puppy hovered around 50-60MB and are already a little put off by the fact that it's 85MB now, although I've been around long enough to understand all of the technical reasons why it has grown.

The office iso is a different animal, and feel free to put in Thunderbird, Gimp, or whatever you feel is needed to make a "professional" caliber distro.

WhoDo, you said this is our chance to 'show what's available for Puppy'. That might be true, but it's only a small part of the story, and you're missing a much bigger part of the story. This is also our chance to show to Barry, and to anyone else watching, that we as a community can be responsible and resourceful enough, and come together enough, to handle a Puppy Linux release. Personally I think what we're getting instead is just the opposite, the kids in the candy store. The bull in the proverbial china shop.

The standard edition needs to come in at a reasonable size and feel like Puppy normally feels, even on limited hardware, or a lot of people are going to hate it. I'm starting to freak out about what I'm hearing, actually. If we can't get this tendency under control I may withdraw my support, because I don't want my name associated with ruining Puppy's image.

Now that my rant is over, please understand that this isn't a personal assault on anyone. But if this is a community edition I get the impression that a lot of the community is being ignored and steamrolled over on this issue.

Nathan

[WhoDo]

This is also our chance to show to Barry, and to anyone else watching, that we as a community can be responsible and resourceful enough, and come together enough, to handle a Puppy Linux release. Personally I think what we're getting instead is just the opposite, the kids in the candy store. The bull in the proverbial china shop.

I hear what you're saying and I want to reassure you that the product that finally gets delivered will be something Barry and everyone else can be proud of. As project coordinator I'll have the final say on inclusions and it will be a lot different to what you are seeing at the moment.

The standard edition needs to come in at a reasonable size and feel like Puppy normally feels, even on limited hardware, or a lot of people are going to hate it. I'm starting to freak out about what I'm hearing, actually. If we can't get this tendency under control I may withdraw my support, because I don't want my name associated with ruining Puppy's image.

I'm aiming for the standard edition to come in somewhere between 85Mb and 99Mb. That WILL happen. No question. I want Puppy Office to come in somewhere between 85Mb and 125Mb. They may be much harder to achieve but everyone needs a goal in life.

Please don't panic, Nathan. Alpha is a brainstorming session. What gets delivered is a starting point - not the end product. Please continue supporting the product and me! Next step is to include the usability functions, some of which are rightly in rarsa's hands with the core project. Some, however, can be implemented more easily. Your advice and assistance is crucial in that effort.

Cheers

[Nathan F]

OK, WhoDo, thank you for the reassurance. Panic mode cancelled, at least until the next time.

Nathan

[EdFromHouston]

Would JAVA 1.6 be a better choice than 1.5.08? I think it is smaller and it is newer.

[Pizzasgood]

Whew. I was about to chime in with Nathan, but you posted while I was reading. Now I feel better.

I definitely agree about cutting out most of the themes/wallpapers/icons/etc. However, I think you should include all of them in the Alpha. That way people can try them all in the actual environment, rather than going from screenshots. Sure, they could download them themselves, but that would take effort You'll get better feedback if you load it up, so they don't have to do anything other than hit "apply".

I'm not sure that Gimp belongs in a standard Puppy, but if you can make it fit, I wouldn't have a problem. Definitely for the deluxe version though.

Same goes for Thunderbird and Xsane.

As for Java, it depends on the actual size. It would probably need to be < 10 MB, which I doubt it is. Maybe in Deluxe though.

@slvrldy17: Tonic Point needs Java.

[tronkel]

OK small is efficient, no doubt about that when it comes to Linux distros.

How about just including a basic browser such as HV3 on the live CD and then as part of the set-up routine, run a script that will allow the user to download and install his choice of browser/email client from either Firefox, Opera, Seamonkey Thunderbird, Sylpheed. Claws etc. A link to this script could be put on the desktop in a prominent place. Could be implemented as a PetGet install or perhaps as a direct download from e.g. mozilla.org. This would help with bumping up their (Mozillas's) download statistics as well. Mozilla packages don't really need installing as such. They can be run from a folder made from an expanded tarball

Would save a lot of space for other nice things and also implement the all-important choice factor in Linux.

[WhoDo]

How about just including a basic browser such as HV3 on the live CD and then as part of the set-up routine, run a script that will allow the user to download and install his choice of browser/email client from either Firefox, Opera, Seamonkey Thunderbird, Sylpheed. Claws etc. A link to this script could be put on the desktop in a prominent place. Could be implemented as a PetGet install or perhaps as a direct download from e.g. mozilla.org.

I understand your point, but I think we either need Seamonkey suite or Firefox/Thunderbird in the main release. Ordinary users don't look for links to add-ons unless they are hit over the head with them, and that increases the FUD factor in the install process.

That said, I would like to see a set of links, in our Welcome offline html page, that offer upgrades to different things if they want. The links certainly could be scripted into PETget to remove any further interaction to get the choices you want. That could work. Lobster has called for someone to design the offline web page, and there is an opportunity there to influence the options available.

Cheers

[tronkel]

WhoDo wrote:

That said, I would like to see a set of links, in our Welcome offline html page, that offer upgrades to different things if they want. The links certainly could be scripted into PETget to remove any further interaction to get the choices you want. That could work. Lobster has called for someone to design the offline web page, and there is an opportunity there to influence the options available.

OK, also a good solution WhoDo. Will try to help if needs be.
I've just got married here and the wife demands attention as well. (my wife or Puppy ..... hmmmm ...)

[WhoDo]

OK, also a good solution WhoDo. Will try to help if needs be.

I've just got married here and the wife demands attention as well. (my wife or Puppy ..... hmmmm ...)

I've been married almost 31 years and it hasn't changed, so you've got a long row to hoe yet!

Cheers