Puppy 2.14 hardware detection is better than Knoppix 5!

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jeffrey · #1 Post by **jeffrey** » Thu 26 Apr 2007, 23:00

Puppy 2.14 boots fine on the following old 500MHz machines:

Acer 4100
ASUS PC
IBM Thinkpad 1100

It detects the PS/2 mice, PS/2 keyboards, and monitors correctly.

To my amazement Knoppix 5.1.1 fails to detect the mouse on the ASUS PC and the recommended boot parameter to resolve this makes no difference.

Please keep this great detection for old hardware working.

#2 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Fri 27 Apr 2007, 20:25

I ran Knoppix for the first time last night (version 4.0.2), because I was following a tutorial that happened to be written for it, and rather than converting it to Puppy I figured I'd burn a Knoppix and see what all the hubbub was about. It was cool in that I didn't need to configure X to get the right resolution, it just picked it. And it automatically connected to the net, though I can think of instances when I'd rather it didn't do that. But my sound didn't work at all. I'm no expert on audio stuff, but I know more about setting it up than the average person. After fiddling for fifteen minutes, I gave up and called the distro garbage. As far as I know, I have a pretty standard built-in sound chip. Puppy loads it right away, no problems.

I also didn't see what the big deal about KDE was. Considering I was running from a CD, it didn't seem very slow, but I have a very fast computer so I wouldn't expect it too. But it did seem overly complex, as did Konqeror. Buttons and tabs and crap everywhere. Bah. And it wouldn't let me right click stuff. Any time I tried, the app would die. If that's a feature, it's a stupid one.

There are only a few things I really liked. One was the BB demo, or whatever it was called. Pure ASCII goodness right there. It made my eyes salivate. Another was the "Enigma" game and the sokoban-like game involving building molecules. The planetarium app was also nifty. And that's about it. Otherwise it felt like a bloated mess.

I suppose it's more of a demo thing though, trying to show off most of the popular Linux apps rather than be a usable distro though, so I can excuse the bloat and some of the flaws (except my audio). I can still blame Konqueror for being stupid and KDE for being a pain. I'd rather have ROX-Filer and either IceWM or XFCE.

Anyway, back to hardware. I was able to set up my wireless USB dongle (though I set it up to interface with a Nintendo DS rather than a WIFI hotspot). It also showed me my partitions if I wanted to mount them, and worked easily with my ethernet. As I said earlier, it auto-configured X for the proper resolution but couldn't handle sound.

Almost all of that works in Puppy. Puppy has the drivers for my wireless dongle, MUT and PMount show my partitions (without cluttering the desktop, I might add), and the ethernet is easy to set up (and OPTIONAL, in case I don't want a connection yet (= speedier boot)).

So, the only real bonus it had over Puppy hardware-wise was auto-configuring X. I can do that in three seconds with Puppy (I hit enter, down, down, down, enter, then it's set up). So not a big deal, just neat. On the other hand, Puppy can configure my sound immediately without my input. After fifteen minutes from a knowledgible Linux user, Knoppix couldn't output sound. I didn't bother googling, as Puppy had already defeated it. Nobody needs to google in Puppy to set a resolution (unless they have a funky graphics chip).

Therefor, I declare Puppy the winner. And it's smaller, leaner, faster, simpler, and works better. And I rarely wind up swearing at Puppy. Can't say the same for Knoppix (that right-click thing was infuriating, so I gave up and used the konsole).

Oh, and maybe the standard Puppy doesn't look as nice by default (with the possible exception of 2.16, which has potential if the gray background is replaced for something with personality that maintains the subtle calm Barry's going for). But Pizzapup not only matches, but exceeds Knoppix.

Sorry for the rant, but I didn't realize how much more complicated other Linux's could be. no wonder people think it's hard. Options are good, but that was just tacky. I want an ultralight, not an Airbus. Unless it's an Autobeat Airbus, but that's another story...

Skipper · #3 Post by **Skipper** » Fri 04 May 2007, 16:42

I had similar experience with Knoppix based distros.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 545#114545

cb88 · #4 Post by **cb88** » Fri 04 May 2007, 17:10

Pizza I see you didn't try the latest distro I mean you wouldn't want knoppix folks throwing off on the latest pizzapup based on thier experience with puppy 1.05. but it might not make any difference since any driver bugs should have been ironed out by 4.0. 5.0 probably doesn't have much more in the way of drivers. I think there are still a few winmodem drivers puppy dosen't have but I want one of those external hardware modems anyway

http://www.trendnet.com/products/TFM-560X.htm this looks like a good hardware modem only about 26$US

Lobster · #5 Post by **Lobster** » Fri 04 May 2007, 17:34

One was the BB demo, or whatever it was called

The BB demo (has good sound too) is just amazing. The story was that it was created to display graphics on a bunch of hercules monitors in Eastern Europe - that can only display ascii . . .

I used knoppix for a while (it came on a CD - now it comes on a DVD) The auto connection to the net and graphics is pretty standard. Knoppix introduced me to Debian and Kanotix. DSL is based on Knoppix . . .

I expected Linux to be like Puppy. Faster (Knoppix was no faster than Windows). I tried very hard to like Knoppix and to use it. I could use it but would prefer not to. Puppy I prefer to use.

Klaus who created Knoppix, did something extraordinary. Amazing to put a CD in and boot up into a complete operating system and software . . . We get used to it. Puppy does it too . . . Now many distros have a run from CD option

Linux competes with itself. It innovates. Linux creates. More and more people are developing for, in and with Linux. For work they use Windows (mostly) but for secure work, fun work, scientific etc, it is done in the new Unix - Linux.

Penguin Power

drongo · #6 Post by **drongo** » Sat 05 May 2007, 11:53

I've mentioned in a couple of other threads that my experience with Knoppix is that it won't detect some hardware that Puppy configures relatively easily. I assume this is mostly just a question of drivers, however.

My first real dabbling with installing Linux (as opposed to poking around the odd GUI) was Knoppix on an IBM laptop about three or four years ago. It was amazing, found absolutely everything including the wireless chipset with virtually no input from me.

When work upgraded me to a Dell laptop Knoppix would just hang. Later versions were better but never as good as my original experience.

Let's face it, Klaus Knopper single-handedly revolutionised Linux. Before Knoppix there were such things as live-CDs but they all needed lots of twiddling. Now you've got SLAX, Berry, Austrumi, a whole heap of Puppies and many other live-CDs - most of which are pretty good.

I wouldn't write Knoppix off yet. But you've got to hand it to Barry and the other developers - the simple hardware detection on Puppy is probably the new benchmark for other live distros. Not sure Puppy will ever be able to match the hardware detection of some of the more polished installable Linuxes like SuSE and Red Hat but it's only a tiny fraction of the size.

When Puppy comes in a boxed set of seven DVDs with a 500 page manual I expect its hardware detection will be perfect. I probably won't be using it any more though.

#7 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sat 05 May 2007, 15:41

I shouldn't have posted while I was still miffed. It's basically a demo cd, of course it's loaded up with a bunch of stuff to show off, and it's running off a CD. As for the sound, now I feel like a hypocrite, because just yesterday I was saying something like "no disto is perfect".

Puppy has spoiled me.

Gn2 · #8 Post by **Gn2** » Sat 05 May 2007, 16:15

Tantaene animis caelestibus irae

Pure

"Genus" Lobster , voiced with elegance.

Linux competes with itself. It innovates. Linux creates

Knoppix was the pro-genitor of LiveCDs, long considered the standard for hardware detection.
Canid I.T. be > Is our Santa Klaus (Knoppix) now the "Crepsular of_the Gods" of past ?

P-G ~ You ARE nomally far more level headed in evaluations & summations, it was highly surprising
to be served "Pizza_toppings"
In fifteen minutes of promiscuous playtime, somewhat hasty conclusions were presented
via qualifying software as :

~ Buttons and tabs and crap everywhere
~ Prefer games
~ Blame Konqueror for being stupid and KDE for being a pain.
~ After fiddling for fifteen minutes, I gave up and called the distro garbage.
~ That right-click thing was infuriating, so I gave up
~ I know more about setting it (sound) up than the average person

All could be taken as a bad night of frustrations until:

I didn't realize how much more complicated other Linux's could be
no wonder people think it's hard

Were comments mere impulsive dog droppings - Dholes of the present pack ?

Not to worry, we all have done it (I have never won any boolean argument with a blinkin cursor yet).
Conversely, without prejudice, nor malice aforethought, it is contended:
Sum ~ users will still be interested in the configurations you enable >
(No pre-supplied_"Aye_candy_wizards"of others allowed )
E.G. Do you have "nice" backgrounds
Udev or shm virtuals of IOCTL mass/E storages ?

Full KDE IS big - not "bloated" * abnormally extended by fluids or gas * - try "feature packed"
Konqueror as a file Mgr is merely a highly extensible wrapper that has mime features without par.
Puppy must be Tkl-ed by numerous user supplied add-ons - to try & emulate a few_basic_functions
Qt, admittedly yes, but to denounce or belittle all is to not KNOW it - as is KDE +
Puppy would be so good as to be capable of such a rich graphical development environment , Esp by default inclusion

Linux users have long dispensed with Windows habits - or right(uous) clickings to execute points

Sorry for the rant, but

....... From the outre side of the shore: Will you walk a little faster please ?

"I ran Knoppix for the first time last night"

So what is Gnu ~ or matters if any is sumwhat addicted to KDE & Konquering all.
Personally , I have no aversion to "Fluxing" in Gui fashion or burning the Midnight Commander oil
Esp if I can munch on kind offerings of Pizza - most are a treat, tasty offerings for all

Sea food is also a flavourful repast to be enjoyed - but not without having due respect to claws that pinch
the waders who toe dip in waters over head.

slvrldy17 · #9 Post by **slvrldy17** » Sat 05 May 2007, 17:13

Have generally had good results working with Knoppix - while I still prefer Puppy for most uses the media players in Knoppix are the easiest to use for my purposes. Since they require KDE to function, having them in Puppy is not really practical - but I can hope for future improvements in what it is practical to incorporate into Puppy from a size standpoint.

Before condemning Knoppix might I recommend trying the current version of Knoppix - 5.2 - that and their support forum is really pretty good about helping sort out hardware problems - much like the forum here.

What is it that I want in an ideal Linux/Puppy media player? The ability - after mounting the drive where my music files are stored - to access my 20GB+ of music files the vast majority of which are in WMA format on an NTFS partition and with a few mouse clicks have a playlist to listen to while I do other stuff. The Kaffine media player does this and I've yet to find its equivalent performance wise in Puppy.

#10 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sat 05 May 2007, 18:46

P-G ~ You ARE nomally far more level headed in evaluations & summations, it was highly surprising
to be served "Pizza_toppings"
In fifteen minutes of promiscuous playtime, somewhat hasty conclusions were presented

I blame it on end-of-year stress. Final exams and all, and several days before I had forgotten to take an online health test. That one wasn't a final, just a normal exam, but missing it will probably drop my health grade from an A to a C. Which means my hopes of getting an overall 3.9 average for my freshman year are shattered. Now the best I can hope for is a 3.75.

But it doesn't mean anything long term. In a year it will be another drop in the barrel. It just gave me a sore pride and a sore knuckle (wooden bed frames are hard).

But pride and knuckles heal. Besides, last semester I was worried if I'd even pull off a 3.0! I should (and will) be happy.

Anyway, exams are over, and I'm out of the city. Now I have a couple weeks of "kicking back" before I head back to the farm and get a job. I can relax, go on long bike rides, and get caught up on my projects. I'll try out the latest Knoppix sometime in the near future, along with Mint, and give them fair evaluations.

GuestToo · #11 Post by **GuestToo** » Sat 05 May 2007, 21:24

What is it that I want in an ideal Linux/Puppy media player? The ability - after mounting the drive where my music files are stored - to access my 20GB+ of music files the vast majority of which are in WMA format on an NTFS partition and with a few mouse clicks have a playlist to listen to while I do other stuff

it is trivial to create a playlist of audio files in /mnt ... just paste this line in an rxvt console:

find /mnt -noleaf -type f -iname *.mp3 -o -iname *.ogg -o -iname *.wma > /root/playlist.m3u

if you want a program that you can click, you can paste the line in a script, (right click a folder, click New, Script ... like this:

#!/bin/sh
find /mnt -noleaf -type f -iname *.mp3 -o -iname *.ogg -o -iname *.wma > /root/playlist.m3u

or install this program, that does the same thing

one click to create a playlist file
click the playlist file to play the audio files in the list (configure Gxine or Xmms or whatever program you use to play in random order, if you like)

russ · #12 Post by **russ** » Wed 09 May 2007, 01:39

I have a laptop and have run Knoppix on it but is really slow. I have found a Knoppix clone called Kanotix that brags about being made for laptops and it does a much better job at picking up hardware on my laptop including batterylife. I have a centrino Pentium M. Puppy is much faster than either of the above and does a really good job (almost as good a job as Kanotix which contains approximately 2.4 gbytes of info on the cd compared to puppy's 87mb's) of picking up hardware. Knoppix is close to 4.7 gb of info on a DVD. Kanotix is the first live-cd to pick up my dialup modem. Puppy now picks it up from 2.13 on. In order to get puppy to pick up my modem on earlier puppy's I had to get the "wizzard" to setup the sound card and then the modem would work (go figure).

Lobster · #13 Post by **Lobster** » Wed 09 May 2007, 04:21

. . . the waders who toe dip in waters over head.

Very clever from post to post
Be kind to the fish

I can not be bothered with Kanotix or Knoppix any more. Too big for a less usable product. The last time I tried, I still had to work like crazy to mount and open the DVD drive. Passwords to get in. Churning away to access bloat . . . was not fun . . .

Kanotix took me 6 hours to install on HD and get a Net connection (OK that was a while back). One thing I liked and found useful in Kanotix was the direct connect to an IRC support icon (which returns in Puppy 2.16). I was so impressed with this I set up the IRC channel for Puppy and Barry adopted it.
In 2.15 you have to set up IRC connection to the Puppy channel. Which is not something newbies will always do . . .

When I was using Knoppix it was the flavour of the month. It really gave me a taste of Linux. What impressed me with Puppy was the documentation and patience to explain basics to everyone.

jeffrey · #14 Post by **jeffrey** » Wed 09 May 2007, 22:11

I just tested out playing a .wav file on Fedora Core 5 on a HP DC7600 (3GHz) PC and found that while the GUI showed it playing no sound came out the socket (and yes the sound was not muted and the volume was up).
Out of interest I booted Puppy 2.14 from CD (with no save file) and played the same file with sound this time.
This is quite extraordinary! I would expect the opposite - a wide community developed distribution (with a lot more money available) and a large installation should have much better hardware support 'out of the box'. By contrast, Puppy is a small distribution, managed (and largely created?) by one person with little funding which one would expect to require extra work to get specific devices to work.
Well done Barry and team! How do you do it?
Small is not only beautiful, it's actually better too!

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy 2.14 hardware detection is better than Knoppix 5!

Puppy 2.14 hardware detection is better than Knoppix 5!

Knoppix

laptop

...and better than Fedora Core 5 too?